View Full Version : Six Flags Magic Mountain or Cedar Point.
The single most drawn out debate in all of coaster nerd history has arrived. The two king pins of their respective chains, fanatics for these two parks have battled since the beginning of coaster sites.
So, where do you guys lie in this colossal debate? Do you favor the B&M thrills of Six Flags Magic Mountain? Or the Intamin adrenaline boosters of Cedar Point? Maybe the coasters are not what drive you to one side of this debate? Perhaps you lie in the fuzzy gray area in between the two "mega-parks", either way, let the debating begin!
Thrill Reconnoiter
12-09-2007, 03:58 PM
I didn't know either of them was a "mega park"? Oh, quantity over quality. I gotcha'. ;)
^ I didn't say being a mega-park was a good thing ;).
rollercoasterfreek
12-09-2007, 06:38 PM
I will be neutral but I like SFMM since I know more about it. I do like some of the rides at CP though.
Michael
12-09-2007, 06:53 PM
So is the point of this to start a flame war? Because it surely will lead to one, based on all of the recent flaming :rolleyes:
rollercoasterfreek
12-09-2007, 07:00 PM
I am afraid it will. It's always So.Cal vs. CP. Can people talk about other things besides those areas? I don't like seeing the "Versus" threads since it will create a war.
It will only create a "war" if the participants can not control their tongues ;).
If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, it's probably better to not say anything.
Comet
12-09-2007, 07:04 PM
From my visits to either park, I'd say Cedar Point, if not only because they had more then half of their coasters open...
That's not really being fair to Magic Mountain though, because I've heard that their operations have gotten better.
rollercoasterfreek
12-09-2007, 07:11 PM
I wonder, how crowded do both parks get? I have heard at SFMM some rides have been waits for up to 5 hours. (The longest I have waited for something is 90 minutes). I assume CP is crowded but how long (on average) does it take to wait for a ride?
X has pulled in some killer lines, but than, so has both Maverick and Top Thrill Dragster.
As far as lines go, they're a pretty even match. Even though Cedar Point probably has better operations.
Michael
12-09-2007, 07:20 PM
This is kinda a hard compaisson, because most people have only been to one, few have had the opportunity to visit both :(
rollercoasterfreek
12-09-2007, 07:23 PM
How about theming? Is there any comparison there?
rollercoasterfreak91
12-09-2007, 07:30 PM
Couldn't say about CP, but SFMM has a few rides with good theming(BTR, Goliath, Riddler, Viper) but the overall theme there is just roller coasters. That being said I'm still loyal to SFMM, but I really want to visit CP.
Youhow2
12-09-2007, 07:38 PM
A Visit to SFMM satisfies me more than a visit to CP... I thinks SFMM's coaster just narrowly beats CP's on an intensity scale... I still get those old Arrow-chills from viper and X waiting in their lines... Here is how I see it(for the coasters):
Riddler kills mantis.
Viper kills magnum.
X kills TTD.... Please bring valid points when you argue this
I'll give deja to WT...
Gold Rush beats CCMR, and DT
Batman dominates raptor...I dont care how long it is....
Goliath kills MF... Even with trims It's still alot more intense.
Maverick I guess is compared to Tatsu...Ive barely ridden either of the two, so I will say Maverick < Tatsu.
-
Parks overall, I say SFMM, Only because They have better themeing
I personally am not a fan of Goliath, but really enjoyed Millennium Force. Maverick was also superior to Tatsu in my opinion. However, I agree with jsut about everything else you said. Magic Mountain themes better than Cedar Point, nuff said.
Comet
12-09-2007, 07:46 PM
No. Viper does not kill Magnum.
Viper does not kill Magnum at all.
I disagree, I prefer Viper to Magnum, by a lot. Magnum to me, was boring, rough, and really provided little airtime. Viper may not be my "cup of tea", but it is the lesser of two evils, in this case.
rollercoasterfreek
12-09-2007, 07:53 PM
Even though Viper has records, isn't it a rough ride? I know I have never been on it but from looking at the trains, it seems like one of those rides that would ruin my neck and lower back.
Comet
12-09-2007, 08:02 PM
I disagree, I prefer Viper to Magnum, by a lot. Magnum to me, was boring, rough, and really provided little airtime. Viper may not be my "cup of tea", but it is the lesser of two evils, in this case.
I hate saying stuff like this because a coaster should be good in every seat.
But if you sit in the right places on Magnum its a great ride.
On the other hand Viper's just a sub par seven inversion coaster that does nothing special.
Youhow2
12-09-2007, 08:03 PM
No. Viper does not kill Magnum.
Viper does not kill Magnum at all.
Kill was the less intense term used in my post, But sorry to tell you, all magnum is, is a rough steel out and back. Viper is a nice, not too rough corkscrew layout, with lots of arrow-loop airtime, and variation in manuever. Magnum is up down, up down, up , down, 360 degree turn, updown, up down, up down, end. To tell you the truth, It is not even a true 200 foot drop...Viper stands taller, and only drops about 20 feet less than magnum also. It contains the mythic arrow coaster double corkscrew...
I dont know what Arrow dynamics was thinking when they built magnum to tell you the truth...
And viper held the tallest loop on a rollercoaster record for the longest time, and I think it only is second to "Dominator" with a 148 foot tall loop, If I'm not mistaken... B&M beat viper by 4 lousy feet....
X kills TTD.... Please bring valid points when you argue this My valid point is it is more logical to put TTD up against Superman, even though Superman is much older, because the concepts are similar. And, TTD obviously wins that battle.
Viper kills magnum. That really depends on if you prefer airtime or inversions. I prefer Magnum probably because I've been on it less.
Goliath kills MF... Even with trims It's still alot more intense. This comparison is all over the place, some believe the exact opposite (such as myself). Goliath is more intense, I'll give you that.
Maverick I guess is compared to Tatsu...Ive barely ridden either of the two, so I will say Maverick < Tatsu. Again, the rides don't 'match up' per say, and although you can compare them, they don't fit together for this thread. Cedar Point lacks an equivalent to Tatsu, and Magic Mountain lacks an equivalent to Maverick.
Magic Mountain themes better than Cedar Point, nuff said.I preferred Cedar Point's theme job, actually. I haven't been to the park since Maverick opened, but I liked the western area, and WT's placement makes the theme work, without much done by the park. Plus, does anyone think Cedar Point's theming isn't superior to Magic Mountain's? A hot (during the summer) hilly park vs. A nice lakeside park.
I disagree, I prefer Viper to Magnum, by a lot. Magnum to me, was boring, rough, and really provided little airtime. Viper may not be my "cup of tea", but it is the lesser of two evils, in this case.Well, both rides are rough, so that doesn't make one superior. As I said before, some prefer inversions (such as you), so that accounts for the 'boring'. And, as far as airtime, I felt a tremendous amount. It could be how you sat or something, but I found it to be filled with airtime, especially the second half of the ride.
A few other points in Cedar Point's favor...
-CP is much easier to navigate. It's pretty flat, so there is no climbing involved when you visit the park.
-The lack of a tram system gives CP another point, as Magic Mountain's sucks. This obviously doesn't effect people that get dropped off.
-Staff, from my experience, is better at the Point than at the Mountain. At Corkscrew, the several times I rode over two days, there the operators ran across the entrance station to manually unlock the restraints. The Goldrusher employees act as if they just had three pizzas from across the pathway, and move extremely slowly (from the many times I've ridden it, this is what I see).
Edit:
On the other hand Viper's just a sub par seven inversion coaster that does nothing special.
Viper is a nice, not too rough corkscrew layout, with lots of airtime, and variation in manuever.
Both of these could be considered true. Viper is actually one of the better loopers from Arrow, in my opinion, having ridden some others. This just shows how different opinions can be, and why these points shouldn't be argued...it's pointless. The points that should be argued can't be pure opinion, because if one person thinks a ride is smooth and someone else thinks it's rough, no one will win. We need to discuss other things besides coasters, like the things I mentioned above this edit. That's what makes a park. Both have great rides, but what would a regular park-goer think? Would they think "gee, that was sub-par to the POV I saw of Millennium Force!" or would they think "Well, Goliath was fun, but that one ride op was on his phone...what a dumbass, we could've died if he didn't push the brake button!" That is where the core of the comparison lies.
Comet
12-09-2007, 08:14 PM
And viper held the tallest loop on a rollercoaster record for the longest time, and I think it only is second to "Dominator" with a 148 foot tall loop, If I'm not mistaken... B&M beat viper by 4 lousy feet....
Yeah...and Magnum was the first 200 foot tall coaster if records count.
Also, the loop really isn't that impressive considering it's diameter is the same size as any other sized loop of the time, it just starts higher up.
Youhow2
12-09-2007, 08:25 PM
Magnum is 205 ft tall... I think Viper is 238 ft tall... I still know for a fact viper IS taller than magnum. The hill viper sits on makes it taller than what it really is.
http://rcdb.com/id25.htm Viper is 188 feet tall.
Youhow2
12-09-2007, 08:27 PM
well than, aint that a bummer... I knew I shouldnt have trust that SFMM show I watched...
I think it all depends on what you like the most in a theme park.
Variety of coasters - SFMM
Inversions - SFMM
Speed - CP
Airtime - CP
Strong Gforces - SFMM
Woodies - CP
Launch coasters - CP
Flats - CP
Water rides - SFMM
Intense rides - SFMM
Food - CP
I side with SFMM on this one. I like rough coasters and SFMM has more of them.
And yet Cedar Point has my favorite coaster, Maverick.
Mike T
12-09-2007, 08:45 PM
If I had to chose where I want to take my vacation, I'd take Cedar Point, not just because theres more to offer, but because I enjoy the "beach"-like setting that the resort provides. I like being able to stay on-site at one of their various hotels, and having the ability to walk back and fourth from my room to the park when needed. I also like the fact that Lake Erie is right there, giving me the ability to Para sail and Jet Ski. Cedar Point would be able to keep me entertained for a few days because it keeps me close to everything, even when its time for the guests to get the heck out of the park. Magic Mountain doesn't offer that. Its a Six Flags with a Hurricane Harbor on the side. Its almost like comparing Busch Gardens Africa to Universal Orlando. Universal keeps you on property and offers activities other than the actual park itself, while Busch Gardens provides the fun, but once those gates are closed, its your job to find the rest of your nightly entertainment, and its your job to find a hotel to stay at.
I think it all depends on what you like the most in a theme park.
Variety of coasters - SFMM
Inversions - SFMM
Speed - CP
Airtime - CP
Strong Gforces - SFMM
Woodies - CP
Launch coasters - CP
Flats - CP
Water rides - SFMM
Intense rides - SFMM
Food - CP
I side with SFMM on this one. I like rough coasters and SFMM has more of them.
And yet Cedar Point has my favorite coaster, Maverick. This couldn't be more perfect. I feel the same about all those evaluations (spare variety), but I prefer CP. Just goes to show that despite an agreement on the parks' performances, different people will still has different preferences.
My valid point is it is more logical to put TTD up against Superman, even though Superman is much older, because the concepts are similar. And, TTD obviously wins that battle.
I think that you could compare TTD to anything at Magic Mountain if you really wanted to. X is the keynote attraction at Magic Mountain, Dragster the keynote at Cedar Point. This makes them comparable in my opinion.
That really depends on if you prefer airtime or inversions. I prefer Magnum probably because I've been on it less.
I've been on Viper around three times and Magnum once, I preferred Viper, as you already know. I suppose this argument lies in preference, as you stated I prefer inversions, so generally I would put a coaster with inversions over one without inversions.
Again, the rides don't 'match up' per say, and although you can compare them, they don't fit together for this thread. Cedar Point lacks an equivalent to Tatsu, and Magic Mountain lacks an equivalent to Maverick.
Was it not you who said that we should be able to compare everything? I see this is a fair comparison, even thought I disagree with his choice, as I find Maverick superior to Tatsu.
I preferred Cedar Point's theme job, actually. I haven't been to the park since Maverick opened, but I liked the western area, and WT's placement makes the theme work, without much done by the park. Plus, does anyone think Cedar Point's theming isn't superior to Magic Mountain's? A hot (during the summer) hilly park vs. A nice lakeside park.
I prefer the theming at Magic Mountain, but that's all about personal preference. Also, the end of your comment is revolving around location and setting, not so much theming. I personally love Magic Mountain's setting, but than I prefer parks that have a hillier landscape. It just looks better in my opinion.
A few other points in Cedar Point's favor...
-CP is much easier to navigate. It's pretty flat, so there is no climbing involved when you visit the park.
True, it is flat, however it is a HUGE pain in the butt to get back to Maverick and Mean Streak. It really does feel like your walking forever before you get to either of these attractions when coming from the front gate.
-The lack of a tram system gives CP another point, as Magic Mountain's sucks. This obviously doesn't effect people that get dropped off.
So, having a poor system is worse than no system at all? I disagree.
-Staff, from my experience, is better at the Point than at the Mountain. At Corkscrew, the several times I rode over two days, there the operators ran across the entrance station to manually unlock the restraints. The Goldrusher employees act as if they just had three pizzas from across the pathway, and move extremely slowly (from the many times I've ridden it, this is what I see).
You got me here. Cedar Point's employees were much quicker, and more professional than Magic Mountain's. However, I didn't find the ride operators to be very friendly, either.
Both of these could be considered true. Viper is actually one of the better loopers from Arrow, in my opinion, having ridden some others. This just shows how different opinions can be, and why these points shouldn't be argued...it's pointless. The points that should be argued can't be pure opinion, because if one person thinks a ride is smooth and someone else thinks it's rough, no one will win. We need to discuss other things besides coasters, like the things I mentioned above this edit. That's what makes a park. Both have great rides, but what would a regular park-goer think? Would they think "gee, that was sub-par to the POV I saw of Millennium Force!" or would they think "Well, Goliath was fun, but that one ride op was on his phone...what a dumbass, we could've died if he didn't push the brake button!" That is where the core of the comparison lies.
Right, guest satisfaction at Cedar Point is generally higher, I agree. Cedar Point has really established itself, as Mike said, as a resort. Magic Mountain has not been able to do that for several reasons. One, the company can not afford it, secondly, I don't think it would be a success. Honestly, the only park around these parts that can pull of a successful resort is Disneyland. Because when people come on vacation, they want to see the mouse, not the trolls ;).
Thought I'd note that Cedar Point pulled in half a million more people than Magic Mountain, that's pretty sad.
was it not you who said that we should be able to compare everything? I see this is a fair comparison, even thought I disagree with his choice, as I find Maverick superior to Tatsu.Yes, 'twas I who said that. Which is why in my post I stated that "although you can compare them, they don't fit together in this thread." You could compare X to Disaster Transport, but that doesn't help the thread, because it doesn't prove either park is better. It just proves an expensive, popular ride is better than a cheap, unknown ride (to the GP) ride.
True, it is flat, however it is a HUGE pain in the butt to get back to Maverick and Mean Streak. It really does feel like your walking forever before you get to either of these attractions when coming from the front gate. Yes, but to get to Riddler's Revenge you either have to walk around a huge hill or straight up it (or take the Orient Express, and walk back down). There's also the train to take from behind MF to Maverick and Mean Streak, if that wasn't torn down for Maverick (I don't think it was).
So, having a poor system is worse than no system at all? I disagree. Magic Mountain needs a system because the parking lot goes so far away from the entrance. CP's pulls right up to the entrance at the closes, so it isn't necessary to have one. If it was a really long walk up to the gate, Magic Mountain would have the upper hand.
Thought I'd note that Cedar Point pulled in half a million more people than Magic Mountain, that's pretty sad.Considering Cedar Point isn't open all year, and it is in a far less populated area, we can see which park the public prefers pretty easily.
Youhow2
12-09-2007, 10:53 PM
Cedair fair has a resort...
Maybe is SFMM, got a Great-wolf lodge style hotel, they would be able to compete but still, I believe this debate is about the parks in themselves, and not the, "Outside of the park things to do".
As far as SFMM getting a hotel/resort, I think SFMM would be the perfect test site if SF wanted to head that direction...But it's not happening....If they could offer free land to a hotel chain to build on their property then it would be a different story (and if they were smart enough to do so), but I dont even think sfmm owns the land it's on so it wouldnt be good anyway...
I believe this debate is about the parks in themselves, and not the, "Outside of the park things to do".That's part of what makes the park, though, if you think about it. If Jake has an opposition to its discussion, he'd say something, but he created the thread and seems to be interested in talking about it. After a long day at a park, it's nice to know there is a TGI Fridays I can go to connected to my hotel to relax and have a nice dinner. At Magic Mountain, I know there's an In-n-Out burger a few minutes down the highway where I can eat a fast food meal. Which is more appealing when deciding which park to visit?
I disagree, I prefer Viper to Magnum, by a lot. Magnum to me, was boring, rough, and really provided little airtime. Viper may not be my "cup of tea", but it is the lesser of two evils, in this case.
Where did you sit on Magnom?
The fourth car in the first row has more airtime than you can handle.
sirloin
12-09-2007, 10:57 PM
If Six Flags decided to build a resort hotel, they'd pick Great Adventure as the park to do it at. Great Adventure is their big performer, and they have a heck of alot of space up there to do that sort of thing.
As I recall, they did announce a hotel for SFGAdv at one point, did they not? Wonder what happened to that.
Youhow2
12-09-2007, 11:04 PM
I dont worry about what I eat when I go to themeparks...Food and hotels dont make or break the park desicion for me. As for families, maybe, but I dont think kids care about "tgi friday". It's about the parents desicion... Parents are gonna sway towards wherever the kids want to go...
^ I was about to say, that would be their second choice. IMO I think SF is trying to give SFMM a massive overhall, but they dont know whats wrong... Maybe we need to get Sharpio to read some of these post....
Yes, 'twas I who said that. Which is why in my post I stated that "although you can compare them, they don't fit together in this thread." You could compare X to Disaster Transport, but that doesn't help the thread, because it doesn't prove either park is better. It just proves an expensive, popular ride is better than a cheap, unknown ride (to the GP) ride.
Right, but I justified the X to Top Thrill comparison by stating that they were both keynote attractions.
Yes, but to get to Riddler's Revenge you either have to walk around a huge hill or straight up it (or take the Orient Express, and walk back down). There's also the train to take from behind MF to Maverick and Mean Streak, if that wasn't torn down for Maverick (I don't think it was).
I personally think it would be faster to get from the gate to Riddler's Revenge, than to get to Maverick from the gate.
Magic Mountain needs a system because the parking lot goes so far away from the entrance. CP's pulls right up to the entrance at the closes, so it isn't necessary to have one. If it was a really long walk up to the gate, Magic Mountain would have the upper hand.
That's true. I was dropped off every day at Cedar Point, but the parking lot did not seem to be quite as far off as Magic Mountains.
Considering Cedar Point isn't open all year, and it is in a far less populated area, we can see which park the public prefers pretty easily.
However, Cedar Point is the only game in town. Magic Mountain is located in one of the largest amusement park markets worldwide (with the exception of Florida). Magic Mountain has much heftier competition than Cedar Point does, so I don't know how accurate this argument can be.
Where did you sit on Magnom?
The fourth car in the first row has more airtime than you can handle.
I rode the very front row. I think, as previously stated, a good coaster is good in every row.
As I recall, they did announce a hotel for SFGAdv at one point, did they not? Wonder what happened to that.
This may have been announced by the old regime, and the plans were thrown out when Shapiro took over. That, or we will see a resort hotel within the next year or two, haha.
Edit:
I dont worry about what I eat when I go to themeparks...Food and hotels dont make or break the park desicion for me. As for families, maybe, but I dont think kids care about "tgi friday". It's about the parents desicion... Parents are gonna sway towards wherever the kids want to go...
Well, it depends. At Magic Mountain, I'm more likely to walk out to Wendy's than I am to eat inside the park. But than, I was on vacation at Cedar Point so I had more money to eat what I wanted. Either way, the food at Cedar Point absolutely kills Magic Mountain's. However, the wait at T.G.I.F's was absolutely terrible when I visited. Ethan and I ended up leaving because we did not want to wait anymore.
If you're a parent and you're checking out both parks and see a few hotels near Magic Mountain and see a park run, indoor water park including resort (with the TGI Fridays, mustn't forget!), which do you choose? Granted you have the money to spend, of course. I do think about eating...it's part of the whole park experience! Places like BGE and Kennywood and some parts of Hershey Park help immerse you into the park's environment through food.
I rode the very front row. I think, as previously stated, a good coaster is good in every row.
I don't know if that can be true for a coaster that has over 4 cars per train.
I think thats how people come up with the idea about some coasters being over/underrated just because they didn't pick the right seat.
I don't know if that can be true for a coaster that has over 4 cars per train.
I think thats how people come up with the idea about some coasters being over/underrated just because they didn't pick the right seat.
I shouldn't have to ride a coaster in the fourth row, right seat, just as the sun starts to set on a day thats starts with an "S". Just to get a good ride. If it isn't good in every row, than it's not a great ride in my opinion.
Right, but I justified the X to Top Thrill comparison by stating that they were both keynote attractions. And your justification is completely correct, and overrides my original feeling. However, then you have Superman to compare, and that seems to go best with TTD...then you have TTD compared with two rides. Two to one doesn't seem very fair, although I suppose it is unavoidable.
I personally think it would be faster to get from the gate to Riddler's Revenge, than to get to Maverick from the gate. We'll just have to get someone with a step-counter handy to measure both distances :)
However, Cedar Point is the only game in town. Magic Mountain is located in one of the largest amusement park markets worldwide (with the exception of Florida). Magic Mountain has much heftier competition than Cedar Point does, so I don't know how accurate this argument can be.A valid point, however, Los Angeles County's population is less than two million away from the entire state of Ohio. So, although Magic Mountain shares the spotlight with Disneyland and other large parks, its pool of visitors is much, much bigger. Sandusky holds about 30,000 citizens, and Cleveland and Cincinnati are both under half a million. Considering again the fact that Magic Mountain is open year round, it should be bringin' in more people than Cedar Point. If it could clench less than a quarter of park goers (assuming there is the same percentage of park goers in both park areas) from LA County, the park would be on its way to beating CP's attendance.
Look at this, I'm already getting flamed for not wanting to argue. Ha! Me negative! Thats a good one. I find it funny how you are telling me not to be negative, but you are currently conversing with the most negative man in the world, Jake.
Anyway, I don't see why this thread was even created, maybe someone was bored because the other "high quality discussions" have ended? If you really want to compare two parks, how about SFGADV and CP? or how about WDW and DLR? I'm just getting tired of signing on to RCPro and looking at all the "high quality wars" going on. It's no fun.
Generally I would keep my opinion to myself, because I know if I posted that I like CP, I would be accused of being a fanboy, which is not true at all. But since you asked, here goes:
I prefer Cedar Point. I feel that they have a overall better ride collection and a better atmosphere. They have a nice blend of flats, and a more diverse collection of roller coasters.
Magic Mountain is a nice park as well, I just think that it can't compete with Cedar Point. But who knows? Maybe in a few years, after their master plan has unfolded, I'll change my view of the park. They have the rides, they just lack the atmosphere.
-Alex
Ha! Me negative! Thats a good one. I find it funny how you are telling me not to be negative, but you are currently conversing with the most negative man in the world, Jake.
He seems very positive in this thread. There's no damn war going on and I don't know why you think there is.
Generally I would keep my opinion to myself, because I know if I posted that I like CP, I would be accused of being a fanboy, which is not true at all. But since you asked, here goes:Look in this thread. Has anyone been accused of being a fanboy?
Anyway, I don't see why this thread was even created, maybe someone was bored because the other "high quality discussions" have ended? If you really want to compare two parks, how about SFGADV and CP? or how about WDW and DLR? I'm just getting tired of signing on to RCPro and looking at all the wars going on. It's no fun.
If you don't see why it was created, don't post in the first place. And if you think those parks should be compared, post a thread. But stop harassing the idea of the thread. I've had fun defending my point and I'm sure Jake and everyone else who's posted has as well.
Magic Mountain is a nice park as well, I just think that it can't compete with Cedar Point. But who knows? Maybe in a few years, after their master plan has unfolded, I'll change my view of the park. They have the rides, they just lack the atmosphere.I doubt Magic Mountain will ever meet Cedar Point's resort style, no matter how much funding they have and how much time they could take. Nobody wants to hang out in Valencia, but there are lakeside activities at Lake Erie in which you can participate.
Cedar Point's on it.. end of story. And why this thread was ever created is beyond me.. I'm sure CP gets way more visitors per year than Magic Mountain does, and not only that but it's "Roller Coaster Capital Of The World" so that explains everything. Not trying to put down Magic Mountain here because it is a good park, but it's commonly known that CP beats MM every second 24/7.
As we all know X2 will be a great new experience, but that still won't make it better than CP.
- Jeff
Youhow2
12-10-2007, 02:57 AM
CP wasnt the real roller-coaster capital of the world until about 2 months ago....
Personally I believe SFMM has more Coaster variety than CP
SFMM:
Floorless
suspended
Inverted
Corkscrew
standup
Launched freefall
mine train
Woodie
Hyper
Boomerang shuttle
Flying
Looping Sit down(world first successful one I might add...)
4D
Space Diver....lol
two kiddies...
Quite frankly I think that, that out varieties CP on a factual, not opinionated scale... Someone else can post the types for CP, I have 2 papers to write due today....
^O college, is it great or what?
Cedar Point Ride List
Acceleration
Giga
Hyper
Inverted Impulse
Inverted
Stand-Up
Wooden, do we count as 3 with Gemini, I am not sure
Mine Ride
Wild Mouse
Suspended
corkscrew
90*+ drop coaster
2 kiddie coasters
bobsled
There really is much more variety with SFMM. I think SFMM has a more unique coaster collection, and has better ones, as well as theming. CP has the atmosphere, staff, and flats. SFMM also has location. So with that I think SFMM wins, but its not easy to say which is better, as they are both good coaster parks, but have much room to improve!
Look at this, I'm already getting flamed for not wanting to argue.Nobody's flaming you, but you're on track for it the way you are complaining about it. Expect to get negative comments for arguing that the thread sucks, when we're trying to have some fun. I don't want to argue about this, because my point here is the right one: If you say you don't like a thread, all you will do is create conflict.
Location, T-TimeKSU, is so dependent on preference. But flats you can definately give to Cedar Point, I don't think I've heard anyone disagree with that.
Look at this, I'm already getting flamed for not wanting to argue. Ha! Me negative! Thats a good one. I find it funny how you are telling me not to be negative, but you are currently conversing with the most negative man in the world, Jake.
Thank you for making this personal, why you needed to bring me into your whining rampage is beyond me. Honestly, if your just going to whine about the creation of a thread, your better off not posting at all.
As far as location goes, I prefer the location of Magic Mountain. The terrain interaction they have with Goldrusher, Tatsu, and Revolution is really cool. Cedar Point doesn't quite have that.
rollercoasterfreek
12-10-2007, 03:03 PM
What about the location? Is Sandusky near anything big? I know Valencia is about an hour (or more depending on traffic) from LA and other parks.
Youhow2
12-10-2007, 03:58 PM
^^Lake eerie....?
The only reason SFMM cant really compete with CP is the simple fact that CP has a resort. SFMM trying to go all family is going to hurt them in the long run. They are located in a mountain range for goodness sakes. Use it to your advantage, build a resort with mountain related activities, advertise it as Xtremeist place on earth... And Presto! you have a college spring break retreat... Well, it may not be as simple as that, but look at their location and compare it to myrtle beach and miami....
Arez, please stop. Right now you are the only problem in this thread...If you dont want a debate, post and dont participate in it. Your trying to belittle us and tell us this CP vs. SFMM debate is pointless and stupid, when compared to the past ones, is actual going quite well. Go start your own SFGADV vs CP thread, and dont try to tell us our topic of debate is stupid.
I honestly think that they are trying to strip Magic Mountain of what it was, a roller coaster thrill park, and make it something it is not which is a family park. I do not care how much they do they will not pull families from the mouse. Sure some focus on families would be nice, but Youwho2 had it basically perfect, what they need to do is get a mix, but not remove the name of what it was. I just having a feeling they are going to lower the value of it, and sell it off to another company to get rid of it. If they really wanted to make it appeal to everyone, which they don't or so it seems, they could go about it one way. Cedar Point has a resort which makes it a destination. I know when I went there me and my dad got the best bargin possible, which meant we drove 4.5 hours from Chicago, but we got round trip for the 2 of us for $150.
Magic Mountain needs a few things if it wants to become a vacation destination, and number 1 is some nice yet cheaper hotels. Build about 2 or 3 hotels, one semi nice one average and one nice. From there the possibilities are endless. The City Walk type thing that is going in will do wonders for the park as it is. Movie theater, restaurants, and shopping places will give people a break from the heat over summer. So Cal is a big spring break destination. Now imagine if on college campuses across the country they advertised it like this. "Want to go to California for Spring Break? The beach? The mountains? The sights? Some of the best theme parks in the world? Stay at SFMM resort and save some money!" I know that would attract all of my friends. All that you need to say is save money and California and its an instant hook.
As far as location goes, I prefer the location of Magic Mountain. The terrain interaction they have with Goldrusher, Tatsu, and Revolution is really cool. Cedar Point doesn't quite have that. I completely forgot about the terrain interaction aspect! While I love that, I also love CP's lakeside feel. It's really nice and relaxing, and freaky when it needs to be! (MF lift hill).
I just wish that Cedar Point used that lake to it's advantage - at least, more than they do. If it were up to me, I would have had a portion of Raptor out over the water, but it's a tad late now I suppose.
While you guys are correct that the "thrill park" deal works for Cedar Point, I'll stand by the fact that they don't have something for everything. Or, not enough of everything. Their kiddy areas are not any better than Magic Mountain's - which in it of itself is pitiful.
I have to say I disagree with you guys who say the family wont work for Magic Mountain. It's pretty clear that being the "Xtreme Park" did not work either, right? So, there are a few things Magic Mountain needs to do to become a "family" success. They DESPERATELY need a big flat, perhaps a Screamin' Swing, or a MaXair type attraction.
And, we'll have to see how Thomas Town pans out. If they do it well, as they did at Discovery Kingdom, it will go a long way in terms of brining in the families.
Honestly, I wish Magic Mountain would read this forum, or other enthusiast forums and glean some of these ideas (not necessarily mine, but you get the picture).
Cedar Point, on the other hand, is, as I said the only game in town. It's "it". It's the Disneyland/Disney World of the midwest, it's the place that people in that region go for their "big amusement park trip" of the year.
Because most of the general public goes to one park, a year. Around these parts, it's either Disneyland, Knott's or Magic Mountain. Very rarely do they go to more than one, even more rare all three.
Magic Mountain needs to be "that park", in order for it to become a success. I guess we'll see how all these additions for next year affect the park.
Because most of the general public goes to one park, a year. Around these parts, it's either Disneyland, Knott's or Magic Mountain. Very rarely do they go to more than one, even more rare all three.Think about that. A year is a very long time...most people I know have been to at least two a year, and Magic Mountain is usually included in that. However, families may be what you meant. They need to advertise them as an ultra-cheap alternative to Disneyland.
Honestly, I wish Magic Mountain would read this forum, or other enthusiast forums and glean some of these ideas (not necessarily mine, but you get the picture).As do I, Jake, as do I. We've all been saying for years they need to add a large flat and advertise the heck out of it. I wonder if they've ever seriously thought about it.
rollercoasterfreek
12-10-2007, 07:55 PM
I do wonder what the weather is like in Ohio but I know that Valencia is mostly sunny. What is weather like in Sandusky?
^ During the summer it's hot, humid, and rainy. During the winter it snows.
About Raptor going over Lake Erie, I don't think it's possible for Cedar Point to gain clearance to build over one of the great lakes.
While I enjoy Six Flags Magic Mountain's hearty terrain, I just wish that they would use it more to their advantage. Only 3 rides interact with it, and only one built within the last 10 years. Could you imagine a terrain GCII, or GG woodie out there?
I also enjoy Cedar Points beachy, laid back location. To this day, Sandusky is one of my favorite towns ever. As Dan said earlier, I really enjoy going up MF's lift lakeside, or going up Magnum's lift and having an incredible view of the beach, same with WT.
-Alex
While I enjoy Six Flags Magic Mountain's hearty terrain, I just wish that they would use it more to their advantage. Only 3 rides interact with it, and only one built within the last 10 years. Could you imagine a terrain GCII, or GG woodie out there? When you think about it, the hill really isn't that big. Plus, there are more than three rides that interact with it, and many more that prohibit the building of anything else:
-Tatsu (interacts)
-Revolution (intertacts)
-Goldrusher (interacts)
-Ninja (interacts)
-Log Jammer (interacts)
-Orient Express (a transport ride, but still interacts)
-Superman (takes up space)
-Sky Tower (takes up space)
-Roaring Rapids is sort of on the edge of the hill (interacts)
Plus, rides like Tatsu and Ninja fill up the space above ground and have supports and footers everywhere. It's amazing how they even fit Tatsu in the web of rides they have on that hill already. Although its cool to think about, there isn't really room for any major coaster up there unless they tear down something (or a few things)
Youhow2
12-10-2007, 09:04 PM
You say thaat the Xtreme park advertising didnt work eh?
I say they screwed it up, and didnt provide enough variety...
apsterling
12-10-2007, 11:28 PM
What they need is a good screamin swing on the mountain. Or better yet, on the tower.
Voyage100
12-11-2007, 04:38 AM
I have heard as, the staffs at Cedar Point is much friendlier than the ones at Six Flags Magic Mountain, since the park has gotten an award 'the friendliest theme park in the US', and it's so like everyone really wants to get on lots of attraction, or have fun a lot on the spectator shows.
sirloin
12-11-2007, 11:16 AM
You say that the Xtreme park advertising didnt work eh?
I say they screwed it up, and didnt provide enough variety...The whole Xtreme Park advertising thing failed miserably. If SFMM could survive as an extreme park, their attendance wouldn't be a in a constant state of freefall.
Also, given that the trends in the amusement industry are leaning heavily towards family rides right now, it would be in Six Flags Magic Mountain's best interest to jump on the bandwagon.
Variety had nothing to do with it, save that there was no variety in the thrill levels of the rides. They were all high-end scream machine. Family rides are what Six Flags Magic Mountain is in desperate need of. That park has more potential than most, but they need to expand into the family market.
p0tat0
12-28-2007, 05:19 AM
The whole Xtreme Park advertising thing failed miserably. If SFMM could survive as an extreme park, their attendance wouldn't be a in a constant state of freefall.
You also have to remember, in 2001 DCA open as well. Even if it was a flop at the time it still had double the attendance of SFMM*.
*http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/money/columns/article_1017336.php (http://http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/money/columns/article_1017336.php)
Think about that. A year is a very long time...most people I know have been to at least two a year, and Magic Mountain is usually included in that. However, families may be what you meant. They need to advertise them as an ultra-cheap alternative to Disneyland.It's really not that cheap of alternative. Ticket prices are about the same, however, MM does have excellent deals.
CP> SFMM... theres really no competition.
Exceller
12-28-2007, 12:01 PM
Yes, both parks both have great roller coasters and rank high in the Top 10's that come out. But if we are going to talk about roller coasters, what about new concepts? I have always found it interesting in if a park decides to play it safe or take it risky.
Both parks have had prototypes or new concepts at their parks. These include for Magic Mountain, X, Deja Vu, and Superman. For CP, Maverick. (I'm not that familiar with CP, so I may have missed 1 or 2.) Saying my information is correct, SFMM is more risky.
Does this make it a better park? No. In fact, it might make it a worse park if those rides are down.
Overall, I don't really like SFMM (in comparison with DL and Knott's) and have never been to CP.
chris
12-28-2007, 12:36 PM
Magnum I think was a prototype.
Mike T
12-28-2007, 01:02 PM
If you want to call Magnum a prototype, then I'm also calling Millennium Force a prototype. Magnum took Arrow Dynamics' pre-existing mine train and shot it up with steroids, adding a thicker spine to the track and a sleeker looking train design. That'd be like telling me Millennium Force is a prototype with the smaller Superman coaster debuting a year earlier at Darien Lake. Cedar Point has always been notorious for creating "test products" at the smaller parks in the chain before debuting them at the Flagship park. A perfect example is one that we are all well familiar with... Xcelerator at Knotts. It acted as the prequel to Top Thrill Dragster.
Michael
12-28-2007, 03:43 PM
^ I agree strongly.
Some other "prequils" such as Speed Monster before Maverick. Vertical Velocity before Wicked Twister. Or Supreme Scream built along with Power Tower.
That's just how Cedar Point rolls :p
:( *sigh* I've never been to either. . . .
Thrill Reconnoiter
12-29-2007, 12:37 AM
If you want to call Magnum a prototype, then I'm also calling Millennium Force a prototype.
Saying Millennium Force is a prototype is like saying Griffon is a prototype because it's taller than SheiKra. In proper regards, Magnum very well was a prototype because it was a new unknown barrier, to Arrow or anyone, at that time. Magnum was a new model for Arrow. The only relation to it and their Mine Train is the guide wheels inside the rails...cause if Magnum was really a beefed up Mine Train, we would've seen the 200ft barrier broken two decades earlier.
Youhow2
12-29-2007, 09:46 AM
Maverick by no means is a "prototype"... They have a new element, yes, but do not forget that the whole entire thing is a awesome assortment of pre-exsisting elements we dont see alot of....
Michael
12-29-2007, 08:45 PM
^ Exactly.
I don't see anything wrog with using exesting technology either, look where it got them with Mavy :)
Batman: The Member
01-06-2008, 03:04 PM
Although I have not been to Cedar Point I would say I was in between the great parks.
Youhow2
01-06-2008, 03:25 PM
I was just thinking about how many extreme parks there are... I never really considered this one, but look at BGE... They have aboslutely no family rollercoasters...They are all extreme. They have animals, and they have all sorts of other small stuff, but all their notable attractions are intense.
SnooSnoo
01-07-2008, 09:52 AM
Gonna have to roll with CP on this one.
darkshines
01-12-2008, 03:20 AM
I've only ever been to SF Magic Mountain, but have definitely heard good things about Cedar Point. Hopefully i'll get to visit CP one day and make my choice.
Voyage100
01-12-2008, 04:32 AM
Cedar Point is now becoming one of 'Xtreme Park' as well, because Maverick is topped as one of the best steel coaster in this season, and many coaster fanatics do even love to get it on. The layout says as, it's just an Intamin Baby, but has lots of exciting loops and twists.
SnooSnoo
01-12-2008, 12:36 PM
^But I think that little multi million dollar expansion/renewel of their kiddy section kinda is the opposite of being 'Xtreme'.. is it not?
Just because they add a smaller coaster thats good doesn't mean its extreme. If any park is extreme in terms of rides, it would still be SFMM or to an extent SFGAdv.
Thrill Reconnoiter
01-12-2008, 02:35 PM
^That's not one sided... :rolleyes: You act like Thomas Town isn't happening. "That little kiddy section kinda is the opposite of being 'Xtreme'.. is it not?"
If anything, both parks are "Xtreme Parks." At least SFMM has realized one must downsize a collection before going forward, now it's time for CP to get with the game.
If anything, both parks are "Xtreme Parks." At least SFMM has realized one must downsize a collection before going forward, now it's time for CP to get with the game.Cedar Point handles their operations in a much better fashion than Magic Mountain does. Magic Mountain had to remove rides that were clogging up the operations of the park (and are still in the process of doing so), but CP has managed to 'move forward' without the same, large-scale operations SFMM has had to work with since the company's management switch.
SnooSnoo
01-12-2008, 06:49 PM
^That's not one sided... :rolleyes: You act like Thomas Town isn't happening. "That little kiddy section kinda is the opposite of being 'Xtreme'.. is it not?"
If anything, both parks are "Xtreme Parks." At least SFMM has realized one must downsize a collection before going forward, now it's time for CP to get with the game.
Well.. i'm not up to date on SFMM news.. pardon my ignorance.. :)
Fact is.. CP was never trying to market itself as a crazy extreme park.. and SFMM did. CP has always tried to give itself a family appeal while, from what i've heard. SFMM tried to narrow its field a bit more with its marketing.
Reminder.. most of my SFMM knowledge is limited.. pardon me if I don't know something.
Brandon
01-17-2008, 06:32 PM
I dont think that this debate will ever be overwith, but according to LA Times writer Brady MacDonald, it is.
Magic Mountain relinquishes coaster crown
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-01/34673769.jpg
Sadly, it’s official. California’s Six Flags Magic Mountain (http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal-blog/?cat=1043) is no longer the “roller coaster capital of the world” — surrendering the title to Ohio’s Cedar Point (http://www.cedarpoint.com/) amusement park.
With the dismantling of Magic Mountain’s Flashback now underway and the addition of Cedar Point’s Maverick in 2007, the world record for most roller coasters at a single amusement park officially moves from Valencia, Calif., to Sandusky, Ohio.
The score: Cedar Point 17, Magic Mountain 15.
“That’s indisputable,” said Cedar Point spokesman Robin Innes.
Magic Mountain vows to reclaim the coaster crown after the jump.
Magic Mountain took the crown from Cedar Point around the turn of the millennium after adding a coaster a year during a building binge that stretched from 1997 to 2003 — bringing the thrill park’s total to an all-time high of 16 coasters.
In 2006, Magic Mountain added the flying Tatsu coaster but demolished the wooden Psyclone coaster — resulting in no net gain.
For 2008, the Mountain chose to upgrade the existing X coaster instead of building a new ride, essentially ceding the lead to Cedar Point — at least for now.
“Someday we will reclaim the title,” vowed Magic Mountain spokeswoman Sue Carpenter. “We’ll be back.”
Canada’s Wonderland, Cedar Point’s sister park, will pull into a tie with Magic Mountain for second place this summer with the addition of Behemoth, the Toronto park’s 15th coaster.
Roller Coaster Database (http://www.rcdb.com/) webmaster Duane Marden points out that several of Magic Mountain’s marquee rides suffer from frequent downtime issues — including X, Superman and Déjà Vu.
“Magic Mountain lost this status long before they started bulldozing roller coasters,” RCDB’s Marden said. “While they may have physically had more roller coasters than Cedar Point, just how often were all of these roller coasters in operation on a given day at the park?”
Of some consolation, Magic Mountain continues to hold a commanding worldwide lead with 35 inversions to 15 upside-down flips for both Cedar Point and Canada’s Wonderland, according to RCDB.
One other silver lining: Magic Mountain still has more roller coasters than 1,693 other amusement parks.
Is the Magic Mountain roller coaster dynasty over?
http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal-blog/?p=1226
RollermanDan
01-17-2008, 06:36 PM
Magic Mountain vows to reclaim the coaster crown after the jump.
Very interesting...
^ Probably either a bunch of clones, or SFMM is to become the new dumping grounds for SF since they no longer have Astroworld for second-hand rides. :rolleyes:
Youhow2
01-17-2008, 07:40 PM
Oh god, SF needs to learn that dumping second hand rides into parks is not a good buisness choice at all. I hope this will never become true...
But I do hope they reclaim coaster capital of the world someday... One day they will be ready to wear the crown respectivly....
But I do hope they reclaim coaster capital of the world someday... One day they will be ready to wear the crown respectivly....If Shapiro's mindset hasn't set you straight on the future of the company, I will: its interest has swayed, those aren't the records they are going for (if any).
Youhow2
01-17-2008, 08:33 PM
Well when they vow themselves to reclaim the record...
Read the article... carefully this time.
Notice at the end of the article...
Is the Magic Mountain roller coaster dynasty over?
Yes, at least for a heck of a long time. Sue Carpenter can say whatever she wants, but without the backing of Shapiro's word on this one, I'm dismissing it, at least for the present. If a vow meant something would really happen, that question wouldn't be a part of the article.
I pray that SF will sell MM to someone who will do what is needed with the park to get it into the correct form it should be. There is more potential there than imaginable, but its being steered by the wrong captain!
This was in the Washington Business Journal. "Six Flags also says it is in talks to open theme parks in the Middle East, India and East Asia, and may consider selling two or three existing parks to raise capital. It will introduce eight new roller coasters at existing parks this year."
Can I hope that SFMM would be one of those parks? It would make this debate so much better to say like Hard Rock Park LA instead of SF ha.
Youhow2
01-17-2008, 09:06 PM
Notice at the end of the article...
Yes, at least for a heck of a long time. Sue Carpenter can say whatever she wants, but without the backing of Shapiro's word on this one, I'm dismissing it, at least for the present. If a vow meant something would really happen, that question wouldn't be a part of the article.
welp, you do have a valid point, but SF has done some amazing things in the past, and we can only hope they will do some more amazing things, like resurrecting SFMM...
rollercoasterfreak91
01-17-2008, 09:35 PM
I have faith in you SF. Show us a good park out of SFMM.
I don't know what you guys are smoking, but the days of the almighty Six Flags roller coaster dynasty are OVER. I have learned that everything coming from Six Flags shall be taken with a grain of salt. Did Shapiro not say that Metro would be back by the end of last year? Here's 2008, and what's this? No Metro.
Note that she said they will... one day. Do you realize when "one day" could be? "One day" could be 100 years from now for all you guys know. The park is no longer moving in the "Coaster Dynasty" direction. I don't know what it's going to take for some of you to realize that the Six Flgs that opened three coasters in one year is gone, hopefully for good.
I think some of you guys could use a good dose of reality...
BrandonH
06-29-2008, 11:31 PM
Cp Wins, It's Only Ranked Number One Amusment Park In The World!!!!!!!!
Michael
06-29-2008, 11:56 PM
Cp Wins, It's Only Ranked Number One Amusment Park In The World!!!!!!!!
By... you? :tongue:
I love CP to death, but quite frankly it isn't "omg".
Dietcokevan
06-30-2008, 01:35 AM
^I haven't been to Cedar Point ever, but have been on SFMM at least 120ish times. Cedar Point has some AMAZING coasters like Maverick, TTD, and Millennium Force. SFMM also has its share of AMAZING coasters like X2, the world's tallest and fastest flying coaster Tatsu, and the world's tallest,fastest,and longest stand-up coaster Riddler's.
Coaster wise I think SFMM has a little edge on Cedar Point.
The ride operators at SFMM look either like zombies or want to be killed. The ride operators at KBF are super fun! Like the one guy at Screamin' Scream one time started to try to get the line to signing songs. You will never find a ride operator like that a SFMM. I don't know if the ride operators are like that at Cedar Point, but I just assume because they are both Cedar Fair parks.
Food, both are WAY the hell too expensive. $15 for a burger and fries. I can't really think of a park that has good prices on food.
Themeing, I don't know about Cedar Point, but I think that all Six Flags parks have horrible themeing, except for Batman rides. KBF's theming is preatty deceint, like Ghostrider is preaty well themed. I really like the cave that you walk into! I don't know if Cedar Point is a big themeing park, but from videos of Maverick it looks preatty good theme wise!
BrandonH
06-30-2008, 09:13 AM
Cedar Point did win golden Ticked award for best amusment park.
Millieum Force > Goliath
Mantis< Riddler
Top Thrill > Superman
Batman < Raptor
Gemini > Collousus
Viper = CorkScrew
Then both parks have some other diffrent rides, Maverick, Wicked Twister,Magnum, Mean Streak, Blue Streak. Cedar Point also has better flats, way better employes. Also way cleanier. No gang fights and all that stuff.
Magic Mountain Has X2 which is great, Deja Vu which is coming down soon Deja vu, ha ha ha) Tatsu, Scream both good rides.
I Still got to go with Intamin Giants over B&M loopers That's just my opinion.
:thumbup2::thumbup2:
I Still got to go with cedar POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SnooSnoo
06-30-2008, 12:47 PM
God.. not this fight again.
Put it simply, judging JUST on coasters, both parks have their own stars..
CP: TTD, MF, Maverick
MM: X2, Tatsu, Scream!
Past that are just above average to decent coasters.
btw gents.. lets not bring stand-ups or floorless coasters into this, because the best of BOTH classes aren't in either park. ;)
Thrill Reconnoiter
06-30-2008, 02:24 PM
Viper = CorkScrew
Why abouts?
Michael
06-30-2008, 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by cpfan365 http://rollercoasterpro.com/community/images/styles/blackyellow/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://rollercoasterpro.com/community/showthread.php?p=19610#post19610)
Viper = CorkScrew
Viper is over twice the height, has more than twice the amount of inversions, it's smoother and overall a better ride experience. How the hell is it equal to corkscrew? :tongue:
SnooSnoo
06-30-2008, 03:25 PM
Viper is over twice the height, has more than twice the amount of inversions, it's smoother and overall a better ride experience. How the hell is it equal to corkscrew? :tongue:
Because they both suck?
:stick_tongue:
JonJon86
06-30-2008, 03:46 PM
Deja Vu which is coming down soon Deja vu, ha ha ha)
:scared:
wait...what?
thats not funny...:crying:
Michael
06-30-2008, 03:56 PM
Because they both suck?
:stick_tongue:
Corkscrew is a fine ride, considering it's history. I love that ride, it's always found a place in my heart.
And I've never heard anything bad about Viper. In fact, I know alot of people who really enjoy it.
So no, neither of them suck :tongue:
Dietcokevan
06-30-2008, 04:38 PM
^Preatty much all coasters are good to me!
There should be a way to lock topics once they haven't been talked in for almost six months. Each park offers good things, there is no reason to compare them, because you are never going to convince someone of a differing view. SFMM vs. CP is worse than Obama and Clinton.
SnooSnoo
06-30-2008, 07:11 PM
CP clearly being Obama.. the winner and all.. ;)
Michael
06-30-2008, 07:22 PM
CP clearly being Obama.. the winner and all.. ;)
^ ?
SnooSnoo
06-30-2008, 08:11 PM
SFMM vs. CP is worse than Obama and Clinton.
CP clearly being Obama.. the winner and all..
Michael
06-30-2008, 08:12 PM
I was questioning why you would say CP is clearly the winner, lol.
SnooSnoo
06-30-2008, 10:35 PM
Obama beat Hillary?
Not offically, but still.
Ok here's my lowdown based on my trip to Cedar Point last week. I remember an article in ACE News about 7 years ago debating this very topic. Both parks are clearly defined by their coasters. We will compare the coasters side by side.
Gold Rusher vs Cedar Creek Mine Ride
Both are Arrow family mine trains nearly 40 years old. CCMR offers a nice placement over a lagoon, while GR offers a nice trip through the mountain. The vote goes to Gold Rusher for this one as it offers a much more thrilling and intense ride than CCMR. 1-0 SFMM
Iron Dragon vs Ninja
Both suspended coasters built in the late 1980's make good use of the parks' terrain and landscaping. The vote goes to Ninja over the tamer Iron Dragon for this one. 2-0 SFMM
Batman vs Raptor
B&M inverts which are both clones. Yes, Raptor has a clone. Batman offers a fast paced and intense ride, while Raptor offers a less intense yet longer ride with a more unique layout. Raptor wins this. 2-1 SFMM
Revolution vs Corkscrew
Both opened in 1976 as the first of their kind. Corkscrew being the first 3 inversion coaster. While both are old and quite bumpy, Revolution gets this vote for its use of the terrain, even though the OTSRs lessen the experience. 3-1 SFMM
Mantis vs Riddler
B&M Standup coasters. Riddler offers a much smoother ride, as well as a longer one than the bumpy Mantis. Riddler also has some nice theming to go along with it. 4-1 SFMM
Blue Streak vs Colossus
Although very different in size, both were known for their airtime when they opened. Colossus has since been tamed down and neutered, while Blue Streak offers a classic out and back ride full of airtime throughout. Blue Streak beats out the big guy this round. 4-2 SFMM
Mean Streak vs Psyclone
Now wait, Psyclone is gone, so you might ask why? Both are the back of the park twister wooden coasters. I only got the chance to ride Mean Streak, but I have not heard anything positive about these coasters. The fact that Cedar Point's lasted longer speaks the winner. 4-3 SFMM
Gemini vs Viper
Very different coasters, but no others to compete with. Viper is way much more thrilling IMO. The trains on Gemini raced, but were so far apart from each other that it did not feel like racing. The newer Arrow beats out the two-credit hybrid. 5-3 SFMM
Percy the Small Engine/Goliath Jr vs Jr Gemini
War of the kiddie coasters begins. I have not ridden GJr/PTSE, but I was lucky enough to get on Jr Gemini. Jr Gemini offers a more unique layout being a figure-8 than the oval PTSE. 5-4 SFMM
Canyon Blaster vs Woodstock Express
More kiddie coaster wars! Woodstock express is obviously bigger and offers more of a warm up to the big coasters than Canyon Blaster does. The winner is the other Cedar Point kiddie. 5-5 Tie OMGZ
Goliath vs Millennium Force
Both stand as the signature traditional roller coasters of their parks and opened in the year 2000. Both have an amazing drop, but after the MCBR on Goliath, the ride pretty much crawls, while MF offers power and airtime up until the end. The force is now with Cedar Point. 6-5 CP
Superman The Escape vs Top Thrill Dragster
Both Intamin masterpieces of their time. Superman delivers a forceless launch which barely makes it halfway up the tower at less than 100mph, while TTD clears the top and is much more thrilling and popular with the GP. TTD wins this race. 7-5 CP
Wildcat vs Flashback
Both relatively the same size and both old and run down, but CP managed to keep theirs up and running while SFMM left Flashback to rot away before destroying it last year. Flashback was better, but now that it is gone, CP gets this point free. 8-5 CP
Magnum XL200 vs X2
Both 200ft State of the art coasters at their time by Arrow Dynamics. Magnum broke the 200 ft height barrier, but offers pretty much nothing beyond the airtime. And even the airtime is painful with those hard restraints. Enough said. X2 delivers a headfirst dive at an 89 degree angle with twists, turns, flips, sound, fire, and fog effects. X2 is undoubtedly better. 8-6 CP
Tatsu vs Maverick
Very different, yet are now the definitive coasters of their parks. Record breaker Tatsu offers a nice flight over the park's terrain and the pretzel loop is an indescribable experience! Maverick, though not a record breaker, delivers a ride which you have to experience firsthand. A "zippy" coaster with lots of twists and turns taken at a speed that continues to the end. The ride is overall smoother and much longer than Tatsu. Maverick wins over the Japanese Dragon.9-6 CP
Deja Vu vs Wicked Twister
Both inverts that go vertical on both ends. The hang-time on Deja Vu's lift is nice, but the roughness kills any chance. Wicked is disorienting, but the launches and spirals provide more of a rush. Plus, being on the beach, it is a nicer location than tucked away in the corner like at SFMM. Wicked Twister it is. 10-6 CP
Disaster Transport vs Scream
Disaster Transport for the theming, Scream for the ride. I compare them for the ride itself since this is not Disney, so the B&M wins over the bobsled.
Final Score:
CP - 10
SFMM - 7
The score says it all. Plus, Cedar Point has a larger selection of flats and family rides than SFMM. Cedar Point's restaurants are all open unlike at SFMM. The park does not have any rundown areas either.
Cedar Point is clearly the winner! :thumbup2:
Michael
07-01-2008, 12:31 AM
I've given alot of thought to this over the last few weeks.
I agree with many of your coaster comparrisons Sam. The only plroblem is, that it just isn't about the single rides themselves. Together, coasters can create an atmosphere. Not to mention the scenery, terrain, employees and service. Cedar Point might have some more 'impressive' rides, but all in all, I am much more impressed with what Six Flags has done recently with Magic Mountain.
This topic came up in the world draft thread not to long ago. If you are solely looking at the idividual rides, it is easy to overlook a park's composition. Cedar Point has it's biggies, but what it lacks is character. Magic Mountain has something special, rides like Tatsu, Riddler's, Goliath. These rides all work together really well, for a reason I can't quite get a grasp on. The park get's it's own personality, it's warm and intriguing. At Cedar Point, I have the feeling that many rides were simply made for a statement - setting a record, saying, "ha look at me, you've never done that before!".
But nonetheless that is my opinion. Cedar Point is special in it's own ways as well. It has a neat atmosphere being on the lake, and you can really appreciate the immense history behind the park. I know that I come across as a coaster junkie alot, hyping alot of rides. (Yes Jake, I know). But from what I've come to see from being exposed to this industry for a few years now, is that sometimes it's not just the coasters that make the park. The park can make the coasters.
BrandonH
07-01-2008, 10:36 AM
It's warm and intriguing
This must not be including the fights that break out daily.
^ Where do you get off man? Honestly, I've been to the park several times and never even heard about a fight breaking out.. get real..
And Sam, I don't really think a coaster by coaster comparison can work, expecially since some of the rides you mentioned are closed, or you havent ridden them. Or both. It's also a matter of opinion. I would have put Psyclone over Mean Streak, and Batman: The Ride over Raptor, but that's just my personal opinion.
BrandonH
07-01-2008, 03:45 PM
My friend's dad was sent away in an ambulence after being attacked and hit multiple times in the head for not letting a group of guys cut him in line, that's where I get off.
My friend's dad was sent away in an ambulence after being attacked and hit multiple times in the head for not letting a group of guys cut him in line, that's where I get off.
First off, I'm sorry that happened. Secondly, though, how do you conclude that things like that happen every day? Bad things happen everywhere, but not necessarily often.
yomama482
07-07-2008, 04:53 PM
Woah, this fight is still going on? They're just amusement parks, guys! I've been to Magic Mountain more times than I can count because I live so close, and its fun, and I'm sure Cedar Point is really fun too, that's the point of both of them existing. Sure, Santa Clarita is kind of ghetto but when I go to Magic Mountain, I don't really have a fear of into a knife fight with a group of Latin Kings or getting into the middle of a turf war between the Bloods and Cryps. In fact, until now, I've never really heard of anyone getting beat up over there, but its in the middle of the desert and the heat tends to make everyone pissy and irritable so I'm not too surprised. I hate to break it to you guys, but both are pretty much the same. If they weren't, there wouldn't need to be so much arguing over which is better.
SnooSnoo
07-07-2008, 05:45 PM
So why did you bring it up again? Didn't appear like anyone was interested.
yomama482
07-07-2008, 07:56 PM
Oh, I just saw it on the first page so it looked like it was still goin'. DIdn't really look at the date.
NWcoasters17
07-18-2010, 11:28 PM
This is a questions I have been asking myself for a long time and so I want to know what the Roller Coaster Enthusiasts of RCPro think is better: The Thrill Capital of the World (Magic Mountain) or the Roller Coaster Capital of the World (Cedar Point).
I have been to Magic Mountain and enjoyed my time there but i have also heard great things about Cedar Point. Hopefully sometime in the near future i will visit Cedar Point and be able to answer this question for myself. ;)
This is tough for me, but I chose Cedar Point just because the operations are better. I prefer X2 over any ride at CP, but the way Cedar Point manages crowds, with all trains running, left a mark on me that raised the bar. The only park that does better that I have been too is Holiday World.
Gemini78
07-19-2010, 03:22 AM
Just a note for those wondering...no, this thread did not suddenly become 12 pages long with two+ years of previous conversation. I just merged the new poll thread with the pure discussion thread that already existed. Carry on. :)
sirloin
07-19-2010, 12:03 PM
I'm on the fence, but leaning towards SFMM. Despite some tasteless additions (Deja Vu, Scream!), I think SFMM manages to do a significantly better job of not bulldozing every last piece of foliage to make room for footers. I like CP especially for the reason Mike put out a while ago that CP has a bit more to do once you leave the park proper, but I just think that it's ride, ride, ride, and not much else as far as the park itself goes. I know SFMM isn't the theme capital of the world, but I like the more spacious feel that it has over CP and I think it's just more attractive. The coasters, again with a few exceptions, seem to blend in much better.
Steelinwood
07-19-2010, 04:11 PM
Cedar point is more of a resort that my family enjoyed, the breakers etc. It also has more historical significance than SFMM, Helen Keller vacationed there! It also has an awesome location on that peninsula. I also think the park has quality. When I was staying in the hotel, the big wigs talked to me and asked me how my day was on several occasions on separate days! The staff also seemed very friendly no matter where I went. And to top it all off, even though it's a number, the park has the most coasters, and fame! Cedar point all the way.
Coasteridiot
07-19-2010, 11:17 PM
Cedar Point.
First off, I'm going to disagree with the majority and say that Cedar Point does have better coasters than Magic Mountain, giving it even more bonus points. Millennium Force and Maverick are better than anything at SFMM, and Magnum XL-200, Top Thrill Dragster, Raptor, Wicked Twister and Gemini are also fantastic rides... Whereas at SFMM the only rides I care for are X2, Goliath, Terminator and Batman. Granted, they are incredible coasters, but after that I'm bored. Everything else is meh and kinda just ridden to say I rode it and to kill time.
Second, Cedar Point's atmosphere is amazing. Out of 41 parks, it's still one of my favorites. I love the energy of the place and the fact that coasters everywhere you look is great. TTD is probably the most perfect placement of any ride at any park I've ever been to.
Cedar Point also has incredible ride operations. Even with some low capacity coasters, lines are always moving. X2 and Deja Vu's lines are horrible, because not only are they long, but they move very slowly and take much longer than they should.
Lastly, Cedar Point has other stuff to do. Other than log rides, there's nothing else to do at SFMM. Cedar Point has Power Tower for me, and Skyhawk which I think I would also like but didn't try. Water rides are just a bonus here.
SFMM also has some advantages. I like how there are individual areas, instead of just midways at CP (with the exception of Frontier Trail, which was really nice). SFMM has some beautiful areas and a lot of trees, but overall it comes down to coasters and operations for me, in which The Point wins.
Don't get me wrong though, I still really enjoy SFMM. I can just keep busy easier at CP.
Terminator an incredible coaster and Riddler's is not? Wow. Terminator is not what I call incredible, good is a stretch. Ride any other GCI and you will think twice about those words.
NWcoasters17
07-20-2010, 12:17 AM
Thanks Gemini. Didnt know there was another thread to this. Just a random question i had lol.
Obviously your a Cedar Point fan.
Me? I think Millennium Force is quite possibly the most overrated coaster in the world. Gemini also sucks, and the rides are overrated for which park they are at. That being said, I love SFMM, it was my home park up until 2 years ago, and this is the first year I won't be visiting in the past 10 years. I love the place, it holds a special place to me, but Cedar Point has the better "atmosphere" and the staff is better.
Coasteridiot
07-20-2010, 12:54 AM
Terminator an incredible coaster and Riddler's is not? Wow. Terminator is not what I call incredible, good is a stretch. Ride any other GCI and you will think twice about those words.
I've ridden Roar West & East, Wildcat, and Lightning Racer. Not the most popular GCIs, but no matter what GCIs I ride that are better or worse than Terminator, my opinion won't change on what kind of ride Terminator is. I love it.
Riddler's I just simply don't like because I hate the standing-up position on coasters. Same goes for Chang, Mantis and Vortex. Don't enjoy any of them.
Youhow2
07-21-2010, 02:14 PM
SFMM?
Magic mountain has more "magic" to it for me... especially on the night right after Fright fest, my favorite day to go... It feels so magical. Cedar point... It's like got a nice atmosphere, and the rides are good, but severely over rated. Pretty much everything at the mountain is a solid ride to me(speaking coaster wise of course...)
Coasteridiot
07-21-2010, 03:21 PM
People go overboard with the whole overrated/underrated thing. When I ride a coaster go to a park, I pay attention to my experience... Who cares how much people love/overhype CP's coasters, I liked them and thought they were great. I can understand if you just simply don't like Cedar Point, but you guys are leading me to believe that you rank it low just because so many people like it.
Youhow2
07-21-2010, 03:39 PM
I dont rank CP low at all. In fact it's one of my top ten parks, right along with SFMM, It's just that SFMM comes first.
When I use underrated/overated it means in my opinion people say the rides are alot better than what they actually are... Like Scream. Nothing wrong with the ride at all, but it's like because it's built over concrete it's the sorriest piece of coaster in existence...
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