Canada's Wonderland Announces "Behemoth" for 2008 [Archive]

Airtime&Gravity

10-05-2007, 06:10 PM

Vaughan, Ontario, 2007 - Canada's Wonderland prepares to change the landscape for thrill seekers in 2008, with the addition of Canada's Biggest, Fastest and Tallest roller coaster - Behemoth. Following 18 months of planning and construction, Behemoth will premiere at Canada’s Wonderland in May 2008.

At over 5,300 feet (1,616m) in length, Behemoth sets the stage for thrills with a climb to a height of 230 feet (70.1m), followed by an adrenaline pumping 85 degree drop with speeds reaching 125 kilometers per hour in 3.9 seconds. The coaster will then take riders through the ultimate coaster experience with high speed twists and turns, including double banked flat loops (horizontal loops) and eight extreme drops. Intensifying the action packed adventure, the ride will feature prototype open-air seating that will allow all riders to experience an unobstructed view of all the thrills and excitement on one of North America's best coasters.

"Behemoth will be the biggest investment in Canada's Wonderland's 27 year history at approximately $26 million dollars," said Raffi Kaprelyan, Vice President and General Manager, Canada’s Wonderland. "With the addition of Behemoth, we wanted to compliment our already impressive line-up of more than 200 rides, shows and attractions with a world class roller coaster that will showcase Wonderland as one of the premier amusement parks in our industry."

Behemoth will be the 15th roller coaster at Canada’s Wonderland. Construction is currently underway, but those who cannot wait until spring may take a virtual ride on Behemoth at canadaswonderland.com. Visitors to canadaswonderland.com may also access exclusive Behemoth updates and features, like virtual renderings, ride statistics and online fun.

Behemoth was designed by Bolliger & Mabillard of Monthey, Switzerland, a recognized industry leader in roller coaster development.

Opening Date: May of 2008

Track Length: Approximately 5,318 ft/1620.9 m
Lift Height: Approximately 230 ft/70 m
Angle of Descent: 85 degrees

Ride Time: Approximately 3 minutes, 10 seconds
Speed of First Drop: Approximately 77 miles/hour 125km/hour
Ride Capacity: Approximately 1,545 guests/hour

http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/files/rendering_aerial_landscape_523.jpg

chrisps

10-05-2007, 07:43 PM

I think that Behemoth will be fun to ride when it opens next year at canada's Wonderland. I wont be able to ride this new coaster next year becuse I am not going to Canada anytime soon maybe one of the members on this site can make a receraction of it for rct3 with the extend coaster and custom supports or maybe someone can do a whole canada's Wonderland receraction for rct3 for next year or rct2 for next year. I think that this coaster looks like fun I only don'nt like how the trains on this coaster look they look like the trains on the giant boomerang coasters but I still think that this coaster will be fun to ride next year.

IntaminFan007

10-05-2007, 10:53 PM

Too bad it is in Canada! Another great coaster that is far away from me! :(

I do not truly LOVE the trains, but it was a great effort though (still supporting my hypothesis that they stole this idea from Vekoma's Deja Vu style trains).

I also do not want to see those trims there; they ruin everything on everything.

-Drop Zone-

10-06-2007, 09:09 AM

^ Maybe they wont even be on... from the animation it didn't look like they slowed it down too much...

jolash

10-06-2007, 11:47 AM

^We've been over that. The trims only activate when the train is traveling excessively fast. If it passes the sensors at X too many mph, the trims will activate to slow it down.

Tom

10-06-2007, 04:33 PM

I think this will be the number 1 coaster of 2008. It looks amazing!

sirloin

10-07-2007, 01:48 PM

I think this is a fantastic addition to a park that contributes so much to Cedar Fair. Canada's Wonderland is an oft-forgotten juggernaut of a park that pulls people in by the droves. It's nice to see them get a good high-capacity ride, which is something I think the park needed for some time.

It's also extremely easy to market. Just look at the thing! It'll be great to read the reviews on this. I also like the new trains. I'm not quite sure how much they'll affect the ride experience, but hey, originality is good.

Jeff

10-08-2007, 04:24 PM

I was waiting on a update for this! Cool to see how it look clean and empty. Almost looks like a dream to me. XD

Whisper

10-08-2007, 08:09 PM

Here's more pictures from CWMania of Behemoth's construction!

They've already started on her lift hill!
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p205/pcwcoasterboy/DSCF2271.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p205/pcwcoasterboy/DSCF2273.jpg
http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1363175
http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1363178
http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1363179
http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1363181
http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1363174
http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1363176

mayoki

10-13-2007, 12:00 AM

The layout looks fantastic. It has a little bit of Nitro, a little bit of Goliath (SFOG), and a little bit of Apollo. The trains...ugh, I' not a big fan. I personally don't like the way they look. They just aren't B&M-ish, and they are square-ish instead of the usual, bench-style coaches. I have been on De'ja Vu and I don't think the style effected the ride. We'll just have to wait and see how they turn out.

Mike T

10-13-2007, 12:04 AM

For reference, I'll post the height levels for the ride's hills again...

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m178/mike2008t/rendering_aerial_isolatedHeightValu.jpg

Dan

10-13-2007, 02:33 AM

Thrill Reconnoiter

10-13-2007, 02:53 AM

I wonder why the ride was designed the way it was, with the post mid-course break run section so weak. The first helix will be taken pretty slowly, and the second won't be too much better. I think it might have been wiser to just have a larger helix without a MCBR, a few airtime hills, and then the final break run. I also would have liked to have seen a bit of variation on the 118' hill, like a weave to the left, through the lift hill.
Without a MCBR they would always stagger a train on the block while in three train op, so it would be just as efficient as only running two trains. Even without a MCBR in two train op, I believe the second train would probably get stopped on the lifthill while the computer waits for the first train to get into the brake run (I know SFOG's dispatches before the first train is back to the station and this is an even longer layout).

Thrill Reconnoiter

10-13-2007, 09:54 PM

**DOUBLE POST** - Mods, please don't ban me...

I've been following the updates on CWMania.com (http://www.cwmania.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7480#7480), here's the latest from Thursday: http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=157561

I can't wait for that 85-degree drop to start taking shape! Construction should be moving along fairly fast since winter conditions start getting bad early. They've been averaging 3-5 pieces a week.

rollercoasterfreak91

10-15-2007, 07:26 PM

Ever since I visited CW last summer I wanted to see a B&M there. I just wish I was going back there to ride it. it looks awesome!

jolash

10-18-2007, 07:53 AM

Decent height already, and we're nowhere near topping off.

http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1380404

Whisper

10-18-2007, 08:40 PM

Keep on rising baby!
http://www.cwmania.com/photos/displayimage.php?pos=-1428

Comet

10-18-2007, 08:47 PM

Wow, it sorta looks beyond 45 degrees from that angle.

Michael

10-18-2007, 10:52 PM

^^ holy crap, this is much more menacing in real life :eek:

GoliathOwnz

10-20-2007, 12:40 PM

Wow... This is gonna be an intimidating ride for some. It looks awesome! That lift hill looks steeper then Goliaths(SFOG). Does anyone know how many degrees?

cryptopsy

10-20-2007, 01:56 PM

i think the lift hill's angle is at least or between 45-50 degrees. its so steep,too bad i live in Miami and before i was in Montreal. but ill give it a week till its 230 f.t up in the air.

Thrill Reconnoiter

10-20-2007, 05:44 PM

Looks like a standard 40-degree lift to me? :confused:

Steve K

10-20-2007, 06:49 PM

It may just be our eyes playing tricks on us, however it would appear that the lift is at approx. 45°. If you look at this shot (http://www.cwmania.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=124&pos=12) and take a protractor (should you be a tool like me, or a student...lol), it comes out to around 45°.

GoliathOwnz

10-20-2007, 06:51 PM

I've searched everywhere for the angle of the lift but can't find it. Anyone?

Voyage100

10-22-2007, 08:53 AM

I was wondering as the angle of the lift hill is between 25 and 35 degree steep, generally speaking. I guess the lift hill of Behemoth would be like 35 degrees, since 40 is kind of pretty steep to climb all the way up.

Michael

10-22-2007, 09:01 AM

^ Yeah I think your right, I think it's between 30 and 40 degress.

(smite me if I'm wrong Behomoth experts :p)

Comet

10-22-2007, 03:24 PM

^&^^Most of the new B&M's are being built with a 45 degree lift hill.

jolash

10-22-2007, 05:43 PM

I think this has 45 degree lift as well.

Thrill Reconnoiter

10-23-2007, 01:28 PM

I got a 40-degree measure off this photo which seems slightly more accurate (when image rotated so street light is at a 90-degree)... http://www.cwmania.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=124&pos=4 It's probably the angle of the photos that are throwing everyone off, because this is only a 40-degree lift: http://rcdb.com/ig3290.htm?picture=7 , http://rcdb.com/ig3290.htm?picture=30 & http://www.themeparkreview.com/south2006/sfog56.jpg I believe 40-degrees is more probable because of the evac procedure. It's not the easiest thing to walk guests down 230-feet of stairs at a 45-degree angle.

However, I think we should be contempt and just wait for an official to give the low down-which I'm sure will be asked when the ride opens.

Michael

10-23-2007, 01:34 PM

It's not the easiest thing to walk guests down 230-feet of stairs at a 45-degree angle.

How about 310 feet? ;)

I'm betting on the 40*, that's what seems to be the most ppopular and plausable right now.
I can't wait to see that 85* drop though, *drools*

Thrill Reconnoiter

10-23-2007, 02:02 PM

How about 310 feet? ;)
This ride actually has some safety and engineering behind it.

This is the lastest update: http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=474464#474464 I would expect to see the drop taking shape within the next couple weeks.

Arez

10-29-2007, 07:59 PM

Credit: CW Mania
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/DragonMountainFan/TOPOFF0008.jpg

They finally topped off at 230ft, this is huge..*drool*.

-Alex

Voyage100

10-30-2007, 07:37 AM

This lift hill gives a really good look. I can't wait to see what that would be like, when some elements are added.

jolash

10-30-2007, 07:39 AM

Mmmmmmm.... This is why I need to get my passport!

Voyage100

10-30-2007, 08:00 AM

Mmmmmmm.... This is why I need to get my passport!

You mean you are from the US, and live near the border between your country and Canada? I now can see you are from Southeast Michigan from your profile. Too bad you have to go out of your way to get your passport for it.

jolash

10-30-2007, 08:05 AM

Yeah those damn terrorists are makin' it hard for me to ride coasters now-a-days. :p

Tom

10-30-2007, 12:01 PM

I wish I had money to go there next year! That lift is b-e-a-utiful!

The Storm Runner

10-30-2007, 06:01 PM

I didn't think you needed a passport to get to Canada...

Anyway, wow that's big! It doesn't quite look 230 ft though. :confused: Then again, everthing's bigger in person. :)

Tom

10-30-2007, 06:15 PM

^Thats what she said. Sorry I had to do it, too tempting. Curses to "The Office" for making me say it constantly.

I actually thought it looked bigger than 230 feet. I cant wait to see the drop start to take shape!

Comet

10-30-2007, 06:45 PM

That's pretty impressive.
Especially considering three supports hold the entire thing up.

jolash

10-30-2007, 10:13 PM

I didn't think you needed a passport to get to Canada...

You need a passport to cross the US border by any means of transportation (starting Jan. 2008).

Michael

10-31-2007, 03:05 PM

That's pretty impressive.
Especially considering three supports hold the entire thing up.
Four actually :cool:

Tom

10-31-2007, 03:11 PM

When do you guys think the drop will start to take shape, I am hoping in the next few weeks the drop and first airhill are done, seems like they are on a pretty good pace, but once winter comes, thats when it will start to slow probably.

Thrill Reconnoiter

10-31-2007, 05:01 PM

^They added the final lift segment yesterday (though there wasn't a ceremony or even an update). I would assume later this week into early next week.

Thrill Reconnoiter

11-04-2007, 02:08 AM

From 'coasterboy' at CWMania:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p205/pcwcoasterboy/DSCF2898.jpg

Tom

11-04-2007, 02:34 AM

That is beautiful looking. I think this will be a B&M masterpiece.

Michael

11-04-2007, 03:36 PM

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p205/pcwcoasterboy/DSCF2898.jpg

Wait a minute, that's eventually going to be 85* ?

Sure looks like it's got a ways to go before then... hmm.... : /

It looks like it's barely curving at the end of that track segment, and it's only around 65*, and it's still gotta have room to pull up. Maybe it's just the angle...

Matt

11-04-2007, 03:40 PM

Maybe it'll be like Mavericks Drop where its 95 degrees for .028 seconds?! :D

It still amazes me how un-supported these coasters keep getting. You see fewer and fewer the more coasters keep popping up.

Dan

11-04-2007, 03:41 PM

That's partially the angle, but also the way the drop was designed. It'll reach 85* in the next few track pieces. You also have to keep in mind that Intamin and B&M profile their drops differently.

GoliathOwnz

11-04-2007, 03:53 PM

I'm pretty sure that is the angle of the photo. It looks about 70 degrees there, though.I still think this is the greatest coaster opening 2008. This drop so far looks crazy, I can't wait for the air-time hills.

sirloin

11-04-2007, 03:55 PM

With the exception of dive machines and rockets, neither manufacturer's coasters every really hit one drop angle and sustain it. Both manufacturers tend to pitch down as steep as possible until it's time to begin the pullout. It leads to more sustained airtime that way, which is why Magnum's drop doesn't really give all that much airtime. The Giovanolas are much the same way as the Arrow hypers are. Hit that magic angle and hold it.

Dan

11-04-2007, 03:57 PM

I'd say its one of the better rides opening for the 2008 season, but everything after the mid-course break run just seems very slow to me. I hope they don't slow down the trains too much, or else that second half could make this ride a lot worse than its potential allows.

Thrill Reconnoiter

11-04-2007, 05:42 PM

You've to remember this coaster doesn't have a predrop and the trains are a good bit longer, so the arc is fairly gradual to prevent the front of the train from hanging over the drop (though that'd be cool).

sirloin

11-04-2007, 09:56 PM

It's been mentioned a zillion times already.

Doesn't mean I condone it, though. I mean come on. Let the trains fly freely.

jolash

11-04-2007, 09:56 PM

We went over this before the forums were reset.

The trims will only activate if the trains are traveling at a certain speed. They aren't set to slow the train, but just to control the speed. Higher speeds because of rain and such will no longer be achievable because of this.

Michael

11-05-2007, 05:05 PM

^ I can just see it now, some hardcore thrill junkie snips the wires for the trims before the rain comes, and buckles himself into the back row ;)

I know for a fact that trims are very useful. They keep maintence in check, and make rides less painful. And it's surprising how much different runs will differ. When I marathoned Wildfire over at SDC a few years back, on some runs, the trims would throw you forward in your seat, other times you barley felt it, and then when the train was lagging a bit, they didn't activate at all. So it really kept the g's on that cobra roll in check ;)

Sorry for going a bit off-topic there :P

jolash

11-06-2007, 08:36 PM

^Not off-topic. Just proves my point exactly.

Thrill Reconnoiter

11-07-2007, 03:16 AM

http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1409604 If there is going to be an 85-degree segment to this ride, that piece would have to be it.

There's also another piece that has been added onto the drop since that shot, but no good photos of it.

Maxamillious

11-07-2007, 11:53 AM

Looks like Canada’s Wonderland is attempting to pull a Maverick. It’ll reach the 85-degree descent and pullout 1/1,000th of a second later. :rolleyes:

jolash

11-07-2007, 02:32 PM

Honestly, is there anything that wrong about that though? Seems like you guys are giving them a hell of a lot of grief about it.

MaverickManJZ

11-07-2007, 04:49 PM

I loved Maverick's first drop. And Behemoth's looks pretty sweet, too.

Jake

11-07-2007, 04:54 PM

^^ I agree, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Anyone who has been on Maverick can attest to that!

mitchellPAUL

11-07-2007, 05:06 PM

It looks as if it's already starting the pullout.

Comet

11-07-2007, 05:09 PM

The drop looks REALLY good, I see no reason to complain.
I also have no doubt that reaches 85 degrees, that angle makes it look really impressive.

Mike T

11-07-2007, 05:26 PM

http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1410276

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m178/mike2008t/behe.jpg
(rendering I did a few days ago)

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m178/mike2008t/novemeber_6th_2007_003.jpg
(The whole sha-bang)
Here are some more photos of this really great attraction courtesy of Cedarpointfan1 over at www.cwmania.com (http://www.cwmania.com)!

This ride is definately shaping up and I can't wait to see more of it...

Tom

11-07-2007, 06:04 PM

That looks beautiful! It just dominates the skyline!

Maxamillious

11-07-2007, 06:44 PM

Honestly, is there anything that wrong about that though? Seems like you guys are giving them a hell of a lot of grief about it.When Busch Gardens Europe advertised Griffon, they boasted “Griffon will send riders through an extraordinary journey 205 up and 90 degrees straight down at more then 70mph” which, being a B&M Diver Coaster is acceptable because that’s the nature of the beast. Behemoth however, takes claim to “an adrenaline pumping 85 degree drop with speeds reaching 125 kilometers per hour in 3.9 seconds” which again, is fine because steep drops are second nature to any ‘goliath’ coaster. My point is however, comparing this photo (http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m178/mike2008t/novemeber_6th_2007_003.jpg) (Behemoth) and this photo (http://rcdb.com/ig3631.htm?picture=10) (Griffon) you can clearly see that Griffon actually sustains that 90 degree drop whereas Behemoth reaches an 85 degree point and then pulls out a split second later. The different being, it’s false/misleading advertising because Behemoth certainly doesn’t drop you at 85 degree decent, it pulls you out once you reach it.

Now don’t misunderstand me. Behemoth looks like a fantastic ride! I’m simply knocking it a little. :)

sirloin

11-07-2007, 06:57 PM

Then it does drop you at 85 degrees. Nowhere does it say for how long. And the only reason Griffon can sustain it is because the trains are only 3 cars long.

You're lucky you had your smiley thrown in there, or I'd have to wonder why such a trivial aspect of the ride is so important.

:)

Tom

11-07-2007, 07:40 PM

^I was just about to mention the trains being why Griffon could drop vertical longer while Behemoth hits 85* only for a split second. Imagine that long of a train going over a tight radius drop, Imagine the negative G's the back row would pull once the front car get some speed.

Michael

11-07-2007, 07:44 PM

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m178/mike2008t/novemeber_6th_2007_003.jpg

That looks no where near 85 degrees... I'm a little confused :confused: And yeah, it's at an angle, but still, that's around a 75 ish, from what I can see...

Thrill Reconnoiter

11-07-2007, 08:26 PM

Then it does drop you at 85 degrees. Nowhere does it say for how long. And the only reason Griffon can sustain it is because the trains are only 3 cars long.
Or because the trains don't get a 'run-in' like this and start from a dead stop.

---

I measured the "85-degree" drop segment about a month ago, which I was heavily chastised about the base point being wrong. Now that it's built and confirmed, I'll post it up.

Here's the drop segment complete: Here (http://xs221.xs.to/xs221/07454/drop.jpg)
Here's the drop segment measured: Here (http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07404/drop2.gif)

I ended up with a final measure of 73.5-degrees, and someone else who did the same thing on CWMania, ended up with a 74-degree measure.

Now, here is what a 82 (some say 81) degree drop looks like: Here (http://www.bgtguide.com/sheikra/photos/sheikra_71.htm)

---
You guys decide.

*I'm just presenting info, not implying or assuming.

Michael

11-07-2007, 08:30 PM

I just measured several photos, and I agree with Ryan, the angle is around 73-75 degrees, not any where close to 85.

So B&M, what happened :confused:

I mean, the drop is still going to be out of this world, but still, were they bluffing the whole time? Who knows...

Thrill Reconnoiter

11-07-2007, 08:41 PM

Here's are some photos edited by duck (Iain) @ CWMania:

What it is: http://www.maj.com/gallery/Duck/ThemeParks/Wonderland2008/nope.jpg

What it should be: http://www.maj.com/gallery/Duck/ThemeParks/Wonderland2008/85.jpg

Jake

11-07-2007, 08:41 PM

So B&M, what happened :confused:

B&M? Try Cedar Fair bro. They're lying through their teeth, that is of course, unless it is actually 85* degrees (and it isn't). So I'd say it's pretty simple, Cedar Fair lied for marketing purposes, it's been done before, and it'll be done again.

Thrill Reconnoiter

11-07-2007, 08:44 PM

B&M? Try Cedar Fair bro. They're lying through their teeth, that is of course, unless it is actually 85* degrees (and it isn't). So I'd say it's pretty simple, Cedar Fair lied for marketing purposes, it's been done before, and it'll be done again.
I don't want to say or imply anything, but I don't know if we can channel them a liar.

It could've been that 85 was a project goal that never made final cut, and no one really took note. Unless your an enthusiast, these are just stats on paper for the people that work in the offices that could've been overlooked.

Jake

11-07-2007, 08:51 PM

Your telling me that they just 'happened' to overlook one of the key marketing aspects of the ride? Get real man, lol. Now this doesn't bother me too much, as I know they are not the only company who has done this. But I'll stick to my story. They didn't 'overlook' anything, they knew what they were doing, and that's that.

Maxamillious

11-07-2007, 10:52 PM

You're lucky you had your smiley thrown in there, or I'd have to wonder why such a trivial aspect of the ride is so important. :)Hehe. :p

Then it does drop you at 85 degrees. Nowhere does it say for how long.You know, we could have an endless debate about the decisive attributes of a drop. ;)

And the only reason Griffon can sustain it is because the trains are only 3 cars long.Correct, and Behemoth could too (factoring in an increase in the pullout radius) if the extra-mile was taken to make it taller, thus allowing it to sustain an 85 degree descent angle.

sirloin

11-07-2007, 11:13 PM

You know, we could have an endless debate about the decisive attributes of a drop. ;)Or why Griffon's drop is more innovative than Behemoth's? ;)

And Ryan, good point on going in off a dead stop. Always helps to lose some speed.

Dan

11-07-2007, 11:20 PM

Correct, and Behemoth could too (factoring in an increase in the pullout radius) if the extra-mile was taken to make it taller, thus allowing it to sustain an 85 degree descent angle.
Not the extra mile, the extra money. It's all about cost, and there's really no reason to make it taller than it is. As said before, B&M rides (spare Dive Machines) don't stay at one angle, so that would just be contradicting the company's basic design principles...which, might I add, have proven pretty popular.

sirloin

11-07-2007, 11:24 PM

Indeed. The parabolic drop is the best-designed drop out there, which is why B&M does it. Increases steepness, and the fear factor along with it, while maximizing airtime. After all, traveling in a straight line won't shoot you out of your seat like having the car continue to pitch down as far as possible.

And building it 260+ feet doesn't hurt, either. I hope this continues B&M's tradition of fantastic megacoasters, and I'm sure it will.

Thrill Reconnoiter

11-08-2007, 12:36 AM

Moving back into the direction of this thread, I don't think anyone is going to get a straight answer on this. Unless a steel worker climbs down the drop and sticks a level on the rail, I have a feeling it will always be said to be 85, and that will be that....like the great terracoaster Maverick.

jolash

11-08-2007, 07:21 AM

^The world's first terracoaster, excluding rides like Nemesis, Air, Black Mamba, Beast, and Big Bad Wolf, right? ;)

Michael

11-08-2007, 04:15 PM

^ When did they ever claim Maverick to be a "terracoaster"? Enlighten me, wouldn't you? :cool:

jolash

11-08-2007, 04:16 PM

Everywhere.

I specifically remember it being on a billboard.

It's probably on the Cedar Point site somewhere.

But honestly, you've been under a rock if you haven't heard this yet.

Michael

11-08-2007, 04:42 PM

Thrill Reconnoiter

11-08-2007, 05:01 PM

^Uh, nope, actually I kept up with the progress and media coverage of Maverick quite extensively, never saw or heard that. But I did here them claim to have North America's steepest drop, a horshoe roll, a 400 foot 70mph tunnel, and multiple sections banked over 90*

And I checked Cedar Point's website, absoultely nothing. And in fact, I do not live under a rock, I just did not here that. And if anyone else did, well good for them :)

But back on topic ;)

I'm sure that they will clear this up, but maybe not...
It was radio advertised as a terra, aswell. Search the P-to-the-Buzz or C-to-the-Buzz (forgot which site had a thread about it).

I doubt Behemoth's drop will be acknowledged. I've heard some officials at a couple other 'big' parks say conflicting info on other rides aswell, so I'm not holding my breath...

Now, to keep this info from the CF shareholders. *deletes thread* :p

Mike T

11-08-2007, 06:04 PM

I hear that the construction crew is blazing through this attraction, having nearly completed the second hill today. I am very interested to see how wide of an apex that second hill will have, as it has to accommodate the lengthy trains, much like the first drop's profile has.

Hopefully a lot of this mis-information will become clear within a week or so. Stay tuned for further details...

cryptopsy

11-08-2007, 10:04 PM

Admin Edit: Really, how hard is it to capitalize?

Maxamillious

11-09-2007, 12:11 PM

Mike, I know you noted that construction has surpassed this point. However, here is the most recent construction photo from RCDB.

Most definitely not 85 degrees...
http://cache.rcdb.com/pictures/picmax/p20710.jpg

http://rcdb.com/ig4005.htm?picture=5

mitchellPAUL

11-09-2007, 01:21 PM

Compare ^THAT, to this..

http://www.cedarpoint.com/_upload/inside_the_park/rides/roller_coasters/millennium_force/millennium_force_01.jpg

If Behemoth is 85 degrees, then they're using the wrong side of the protractor.

Tom

11-09-2007, 01:29 PM

Ok its not 85 degrees I will live. But 75 degrees is still a REALLY steep drop. Its not like a 30 degree drop or 50 degree, its 75. I know a good percent of you have been on Goliath at SFMM, thats 61 degrees, and thats steep enough to freak almost everyone out. I can easily live with a 75 degree drop, no big deal.

mitchellPAUL

11-09-2007, 01:58 PM

Maybe it was a typo.. they hit an 8 instead of a 7.

Maxamillious

11-09-2007, 02:02 PM

^ On a press release? I seriously hope your kidding.

Michael

11-09-2007, 03:37 PM

^ It was Cedar Fair after all :rolleyes:
j/k

SnooSnoo

11-09-2007, 06:24 PM

The drop does look pretty good.. i'm hoping it doesn't have the Millennium Force syndrome.. amazing drop then suck ride.

Michael

11-09-2007, 06:32 PM

^ So incedibly graceful sweeping curves, parabolic hills, and an incredible finalee means that it sucks? Okay.. we'll go with that... :rolleyes:

sirloin

11-09-2007, 08:29 PM

I think he was referring to the almost excessive grace to the ride.

Mind you, I thought Millennium Force could be quite intense if you sat in the right spot and the weather was good, but to each his own. No SFNE Superman, though. That's for sure.

Intamin-Mike, believe it or not, there are people out there who don't think MF is all that great of a ride.

jolash

11-09-2007, 08:44 PM

Millennium Force is actually forceless? GASP!

cryptopsy

11-12-2007, 10:52 PM

I emailed wonderland and guess what they said. the drop is 85 degrees. mayby its tecnology dosnt look like 85 degrees but really it is. mayby there fooling our minds.but i know its gonna be a good ride.

Top Thrill Dragster

11-12-2007, 11:07 PM

Intamin-Mike, believe it or not, there are people out there who don't think MF is all that great of a ride.
I am one of them. After the first drop the ride was just boring.

Behemoth, looks awesome compared to MF.

New Pic

http://behemoth.canadaswonderland.com/_upload/photo_gallery/construction/2007_1108_01.jpg

jolash

11-13-2007, 07:24 AM

This, amongst Voyage and Hades, is my most anticipated ride of '08.

Michael

11-13-2007, 08:01 PM

Intamin-Mike, believe it or not, there are people out there who don't think MF is all that great of a ride.

I know this from experience, lol *remembers that argument we had back in July* ;)

^and yes, I am glued to my screen as the construction unfolds. *grabs the popcorn*

Maxamillious

11-13-2007, 11:08 PM

^^^ Behemoth’s first drop much resembles Steel Eel’s from Sea World San Antonio.

http://cache.rcdb.com/pictures/picmax/p1760.jpg

I’ll have to find a better shot from my personal collection, but the similarities are fairly obvious. :)

disneylhand

11-14-2007, 12:11 AM

Steel Eel's at Sea World San Antonio.

-disneylhand

jolash

11-14-2007, 07:26 AM

http://www.screamscape.com/assets/images/db_images/db_2007_1113_Behemoth11.jpg
http://www.screamscape.com/assets/images/db_images/db_2007_1113_Behemoth21.jpg
http://www.screamscape.com/assets/images/db_images/db_2007_1113_Behemoth31.jpg

Jake

11-14-2007, 10:39 AM

85* or not, that is one hell of a sexy ride.

Maxamillious

11-14-2007, 12:08 PM

Steel Eel's at Sea World San Antonio.Haha, I feel like a noob now. It’s been three years since I’ve visited either park and I mixed them up by mistake. It’s all fixed now though. :)

sirloin

11-14-2007, 01:07 PM

Maybe it's just me, but that second hill looks like it's going to peak noticeably lower than it needs to.

Perhaps we shall see some quality airtime in hill number two? I can only hope.

Tom

11-14-2007, 01:24 PM

It seems as if the stats are not the same as they were in the press release. That hill loks smaller, but hopefully that means more airtime, that would be ideal. Still this ride looks amazing.

sirloin

11-14-2007, 01:32 PM

To be honest, I think it may just be the angle, as in the last photo the height difference doesn't seem quite so drastic. I can sure hope, though.

For once, an error in stats would be good news.

Thrill Reconnoiter

11-14-2007, 01:33 PM

Going back to my graph:
http://xs219.xs.to/xs219/07366/graph.jpg

The first hills are still higher and don't fall off as quick as LaRonde's Goliath does. Hopefully the longer trains carry more speed or the camelback's arch is shaped more sharply, because if they run the same way, theoretically the air shouldn't be as strong as Goliath.

EDIT: Behemoth's end falls off because of the block.

Voyage100

11-16-2007, 11:08 PM

Thrill Reconnoiter

11-16-2007, 11:25 PM

Just wondering, how do you guys get this kind of data? I find it so fun as I can see this kind of details about the 'percentage relative to initial lift height'. It's really useful to guess the top speed at the each point, using 'kinetic energy' formula thing.
I took the height of the lift hill, then each camelback and/or hill, and added it all into a graph maker. I just wanted to illustrate that Behemoth's hills after the lift are still relatively higher than Goliath-on a percentage basis.

jolash

11-20-2007, 10:58 PM

Most recent:

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc200/cooliocody12/958490237110_0_ALB.jpg
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc200/cooliocody12/468490237110_0_ALB.jpg

Tom

11-22-2007, 04:32 AM

That is beautiful! It looks as if everything is coming together nicely!

thatdancingbear

11-22-2007, 03:48 PM

I like how they already assembled the supports on the return run. Will being built next to a lake pose a problem with assembling sections over/through the structure that is already there?

R.C.

11-22-2007, 03:54 PM

I doubt it. If it was going to be a problem, they would have built the other part first.

rollercoasterfreak91

11-22-2007, 05:07 PM

It's really going up fast. I can only imagine how much it'll dwarf IJST. And I only missed riding it by 2 years. :(

Tom

01-08-2008, 03:23 PM

If you look on RCDB they have completed the out and back layout, and may I say it looks amazing.

mitchellPAUL

01-08-2008, 04:34 PM

I never got why they put stairs in the middle of a hill, how are you supposed to get to them anyway?

anyway, the layout is looking solid. Can't wait for TPR to hit it up and see a new video.

Matt

01-08-2008, 09:08 PM

Access the trim brakes maybe? And maybe theres those little ladders on the sides of one of the supports.

LilOm3n

01-13-2008, 02:15 PM

Man, I cant wait to ride this bad boy in 2008. They sure are quick to put this beast up.

Im sure the trims wont affect the ride at all. Like someone said before, they only use them if the train is going excessively fast.

SnooSnoo

01-13-2008, 03:24 PM

^Yet.. if the ride is going too fast all the time.. the trims will be on all the time.. such as some other notable B&M hypers.. Raging Bull, Nitro.. and Apollo's Chariot to a point.

If that happens, it will KILL the airtime on the return course.. just like Magnum XL-200.. which is a sad thing.

LilOm3n

01-13-2008, 03:36 PM

^ True, though we will not know for sure until we ride it, We wont know how fast it goes until May, lets just keep our fingers crossed for the best

Voyage100

01-17-2008, 04:27 AM

I know the trim brake may ruin the airtime, but it should be added as the safe speed control system. I guess you need not to worry about how its return-run will be like, B&M is really out to produce its pure fun.

LilOm3n

01-17-2008, 08:25 AM

Yeah, you can't blame them for putting in the trims, i know it could possibly kill the airtime, but they're doing it to keep us safe. Im just as a fan for airtime asa the next guy, but i would rather it be a safe coaster that doesn't get damaged because it has no trims

Jake

01-17-2008, 11:33 AM

Well if they designed this properly (In my opinion of course, as always) then the "safe speed" will still give plenty of airtime over the last few hills. If they're anything like the breaks on the top of the hill (after the launch) on Maverick, then you guys have nothing to worry about.

Brandon728

01-17-2008, 06:52 PM

I don't know why, but in the animated pov of Behemoth, it didn't seem to have that much speed going over the hills. It seemed to be crawling over the hills like Millenium Force. So I'm hoping that the video isn't to scale. But then again, when you look at Maverick's animated pov and compare to the real pov, they look almost identical (except the horseshoe roll and heartline)

Thrill Reconnoiter

01-17-2008, 07:37 PM

Thirteen pages later and still talking about the 'trims'. LOL

I don't think a CGI, nor any actual POV footage, is a good indicator of airtime...

On the subject of the 'trims', there will be a huge mental factor involved. Even if they're there and not being used excessively, our human minds are still prone to thinking the forces are altered to a noticeable degree, even if it may not be.

Whisper

01-22-2008, 10:55 PM

It's been confirmed, the last piece of track has been installed!
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd17/Behemoth230/Behemoth%20construction/100_0040.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd17/Behemoth230/Behemoth%20construction/100_0042.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd17/Behemoth230/Behemoth%20construction/100_0043.jpg

I can't show you the pictures, because it would be illegal (that being trespassing) but this should be good enough.

Michael

01-22-2008, 11:01 PM

Whoa Deja Vu...

First Pic, :eek:

Good pics!

chris

01-24-2008, 04:27 PM

The 2nd tallest B&M is complete! Now we have to just wait for the trains to show up! This is probably the best B&M mega. Congrats to Wonderland.

Michael

01-24-2008, 05:02 PM

^ Better than Nitro or Siverstar? :confused:

IDK about that, but it sure looks fantastic! :)

tycooner55

01-24-2008, 05:46 PM

^ Better than Nitro or Siverstar? :confused:

IDK about that, but it sure looks fantastic! :)

I've never heard good reviews about Nitro. :(

chris

01-24-2008, 06:07 PM

Im talking about the trains. They're a first. The height is a few feet shorter than Silver Star. And plus they're all the same layout. This one is different.

The Storm Runner

01-24-2008, 06:09 PM

Really? Nitro's my all-time favorite coaster, as well as a couple others...

Anyway, wow they're ahead of schedule! Or, maybe they planned for setbacks due to snow and stuff. I guess they're lucky! That, or they're about to get a ton of snow very soon...

tycooner55

01-24-2008, 06:10 PM

Really? Nitro's my all-time favorite coaster, as well as a couple others...

Something about being "forceless". After riding Magunm and the Phantom's Revenge, I might see where they're coming from.

Jake

01-24-2008, 06:19 PM

^ I figure better "forceless" and smooth then "intense" and rough..

Dan

01-24-2008, 06:55 PM

Something about being "forceless". After riding Magunm and the Phantom's Revenge, I might see where they're coming from.They're just different experiences. One isn't better than the other because of forces, it just sets them apart. And plus, the negative forces on B&M hypers beats Phantom's Revenge (or at least the ones I've been on).

tycooner55

01-24-2008, 08:02 PM

They're just different experiences. One isn't better than the other because of forces, it just sets them apart. And plus, the negative forces on B&M hypers beats Phantom's Revenge (or at least the ones I've been on).

The negative g's are different. Maggy and the Phantom provide massive "ejector" air while B&Ms specialize in "floater" air, like Appollo's Chariot. Both are good. Just personal preference.

Brandon

01-24-2008, 08:16 PM

^ I figure better "forceless" and smooth then "intense" and rough..
Says the man who is planning a GhostRider Ironman Challenge at Solace.

Behemoth is looking great, however, I really cant say it looks any better than the other Mega's like Nitro and Silverstar as mentioned earlier. While the new trains will deffinately add some diversity to the mega's, I just cant see this being better than every other B&M Mega. There are far better B&M Megas in my mind.

Mike T

01-25-2008, 12:16 AM

Jake

01-25-2008, 12:20 AM

Says the man who is planning a GhostRider Ironman Challenge at Solace.

I know you think that you're funny, but your wrong. So please, save us the pain of listening to your worthless "pwns" and "owns".

^ I agree. This will probably be one of the better, if not the best B&M mega coaster out there..

Brandon

01-25-2008, 12:33 AM

I don't understand what makes this one so much of a lesser product than any of the previous rides? It looks unique, and B&M added a few new elemental features to the ride's design to make it different. So I have to give props to B&M for switching it up a bit with the design, and I'm sure that when its all said and done, people will be satisfied with Behemoth.

That's the the thing everyone is saying. They are not doing anything new track-wise. Here are a few examples of what I mean. The hammerhead turn has been done on Ragin' Bull, the camelback hills and ending helix look no different than Goliath, which is pretty fitting for Behemoth. The only new element is the trains, which we have seen before (see: Deja Vu clones), simply not from B&M and not on a sit-down.

Dan

01-25-2008, 12:35 AM

I don't want to make any comment on how it will turn out, simply because of the trains. It seems B&M throttled back the speed at the apex of some of the hills, possibly due to the newer technology (could just be how the renderings look). I don't like the layout very much, but I will admit that the first half of it really does illustrates the point of the ride - an airtime machine. If the trains are a hit, and allow for the same airtime present on other hypers, this ride will really deliver.

There are far better B&M Megas in my mind.Which have you ridden, and why would you say this looks inferior? to those?

That's the the thing everyone is saying. They are not doing anything new track-wise. Here are a few examples of what I mean. The hammerhead turn has been done on Ragin' Bull, the camelback hills and ending helix look no different than Goliath, which is pretty fitting for Behemoth. The only new element is the trains, which we have seen before (see: Deja Vu clones), simply not from B&M and not on a sit-down.If it works, they stick with it. That phrase seems to have kept the company popular throughout the years, hasn't it? Name your top three coasters. I can guarantee the majority of them don't have many original elements ;)

Mike T

01-25-2008, 12:41 AM

Thats not what makes the difference though. Consider a normal B&M mega coaster. Now add 22 feet of extra train to one of those coasters and you end up with what we're dealing with here on Behemoth. Did you ever think that maybe those speed correctors have something to do with the speed of the train? Considering that a longer train creates more push and pull as it goes up and down those hills, theres definately going to be a dramatic difference in how the ride feels from a front row perspective to a back row perspective. Thats what I'm excited about more than anything else, plus the fact that B&M exaggerated all of its elements for this ride. The drop is steeper, the hammerhead is so different that it's been given a totally different name (it escapes me right now), the helix is taken from 90 feet in the air, and the camel backs are some of the longest true drops we've ever seen on a B&M designed mega coaster. I can't really point out many negatives about the ride, but it seems really unique to me.

Dan

01-25-2008, 12:47 AM

theres definately going to be a dramatic difference in how the ride feels from a front row perspective to a back row perspective.There will definately be a negative aspect to the ride if the front row doesn't deliver. As said, the speed correctors are there just in case the train is over its best speed. If there's any indication that B&M doesn't know exactly what will happen, it is the correctors. Of course they've got it almost down, but there is that unavoidable margin of error when transfer it from paper (or computer) to the real world. We saw that with Maverick...

I have no doubt the ride will be fun, but the variability from the front car to the back could mean just different experiences, or it could mean a simply good ride vs. an amazing ride. We'll just have to wait until the reviews start pouring in after opening...

Brandon

01-25-2008, 12:50 AM

Which have you ridden, and why would you say this looks inferior?

I don't like the layout very much
This is why I do not feel as if Behemoth is better than the other megas out there. I base this on a originality standpoint. Nearly every B&M Mega has it's own certain originality, but to me, it seems like all Behemoth has is a new train design and what appears to be a good size of airtime. Everything else is pretty much "borrowed" from other Beemer Mega's. I never said that this would be a bad attraction. I just do not feel that there is much originality to it. Also, please remember that this is simply my opinion.

Jake

01-25-2008, 12:54 AM

This ride reminds me of Maverick in a way (heh - youhow2 just had a fit).

It seems that although none of the elements in it of themselves are unique, finding them all on one coaster is. It kind of reminds me of an all star team in a professional sport. You take some of the best elements from some of the best coasters and put em all onto one coaster. For example, the string of great hills from Nitro, Hammerhead from Raging Bull, helix from Goliath, plus the huge drop.

Seems like a winner in my book, plenty unique too.

Dan

01-25-2008, 12:56 AM

This is why I do not feel as if Behemoth is better than the other megas out there. I base this on a originality standpoint. Nearly every B&M Mega has it's own certain originality, but to me, it seems like all Behemoth has is a new train design and what appears to be a good size of airtime. Everything else is pretty much "borrowed" from other Beemer Mega's. Also, please remember that this is simply my opinion.Well, I don't like for other reasons (the scale, unnecessary because of the new trains). How does every B&M mega have its own original thing? And which one has something as big as entirely new trains? Pretty much all books "borrow" from the bible. Pretty much all coaster "borrow" from others...that's just the way it works. As I said, the layout is meant as an airtime machine...what is required? Airtime hills. The only lack of originality is its purpose, but that isn't even an issue.

Mike T

01-25-2008, 01:01 AM

I'm just trying to figure out why the following coasters are so much different from each other...

Photo: RCDB.comhttp://cache.rcdb.com/pictures/picmax/p13503.jpg

http://cache.rcdb.com/pictures/picmax/p4003.jpg
Photo: RCDB.com

http://cache.rcdb.com/pictures/picmax/p17708.jpg
Photo: RCDB.com

http://cache.rcdb.com/pictures/picmax/p1664.jpg
Photo: RCDB.com

I see camel back hills, Hammer head turns, and helices on these rides, but what makes them more appealing than Behemoth? The fact that one of the hills dog-leg's it to the left?

And I don't see the resemblance to Raging Bull's Hammer head btw... lol... :confused: