Corkscrews on Inverts?

[Ben]

Why does it seem that there is rarely ever a double corkscrew on an Invert, yet on regular sit downs, we see them all the time?

[Dan]

Just a designing decision. Usually you don't see double corkscrews at all anymore, for the most part, they are on older coasters. You do see interlocking corkscrews on sit downs and floorless from B&M, but the designs of those rides are traditionally more spread out and flowing, whereas inverts have (again, traditionally) more compact layouts. You often see two corkscrews on an invert, just not one right after the other.

[Jake]

I could be mistaken, but doesn't Silver Bullet have two corkscrews in a row?

[Dan]

Yes, but it's not really a "double corkscrew", as they aren't directly after each other. There is a turn and little hill between them.

[MaverickManJZ]

Anaconda at Gold Reef City has a double wing-over.

[jolash]

As Dan stated before, the double corkscrew is an old element. Modern designers rarely use it. It's all just design trends.

[theRock-steel]

I think that those maneuvers are a little harder on us riders. On an invert the train swings from side to side on the track. With a corkscrew, heartline spin or sharp turn there is additional lateral movement (and g-forces). For me, too much of that sounds painful. I'll take a 140+ ft drop followed by a large loop, dive loop, or Immelmann any day.

[Dan]

I think that those maneuvers are a little harder on us riders. On an invert the train swings from side to side on the track. With a corkscrew, heartline spin or sharp turn there is additional lateral movement (and g-forces). For me, too much of that sounds painful. I'll take a 140+ ft drop followed by a large loop, dive loop, or Immelmann any day.
You're thinking of Suspended coasters, like Ninja or Big Bad Wolf. We're talking about Inverted coasters from Bolliger and Mabillard (B&M). They are fixed to the track.

[tycooner55]

I prefer interlocking corkscrews over double corkscrews. It gives you a little time between inversions and provides more variety in the experience.

[Voyage100]

Double corkscrews look really cool as well, but might make us feel kind of disoriented or dizzy, specially when it goes spin fast. Interlocking corkscrews are better than 2 spins in a row on B&M, so we won't get sick. Before going through the second spin it goes hit the 'turnaround'.

[Ben]

Ya, but I think that double corkscrews would be fun on an Invert, cause a corkscrew on an invert is a lot different than a corkscrew on a regular sit down. A double would be intense, but hey, I think it'd be a lot of fun. I'd ride it! But I guess the majority would complain or whatever.

There aren't that many interlocking corkscrews on Inverts though, at least not anywhere close as to Floorless and Stand ups.

[Michael]

Double corkscrews look really cool as well, but might make us feel kind of disoriented or dizzy, specially when it goes spin fast. Interlocking corkscrews are better than 2 spins in a row on B&M, so we won't get sick. Before going through the second spin it goes hit the 'turnaround'.

Isn't that why we ride coasters? :D

[Jake]

^ To get sick? That's sure as heck not why I ride coasters, but to each his own.

There's no reason they couldn't have a "double corkscrew", and to be honest I don't know why they don't do it more often. I know when I was little it was the coolest thing to have "Two Corkscrews in a row!!!!!!!" Maybe that kind of thing just isn't as popular as it used to be.

[rollercoasterfreak91]

^,^^ To get disoriented, not sick. Even though it's hard to get disoriented when you have the layout memorized.
Maybe the triple corkscrew will be the next 'in' thing.

[Michael]

^Yeah, that's what I meant. :p

I think that the double corkscrew isn't featured on B&M invert because first of all, the double corkscrew is a trademark of Arrow Loopers, not B&M's. Second of all, inverted coasters have a very recognizeable "swing" or "swagger" to the areas between elements. Tradional coasters are generally flowing and less "swingy" in their movements. Inverts usually use the swinging motion of changing banking (ie: the finalee of Silver Bullet through the corkscrews that are interrupted by a reversal in the banking caused by a turn.) So a double corkscrew is more of a fluent rolling motion. That's why all Inverts swing from side to side, banking into the next inversion. It's all about ride style and pacing. :cool:

[socalMAN123]

Double corkscrews on inverts are awesome. On inverts, it really brings out a disoriented feeling of, "Where the heck am I?" Kind of what you get on X. But seriously, the double corkscrews are better on inverts than they are on say, Viper.
---Brent:cool:

[Dan]

^ Are there any double corks on inverts?

[sirloin]

Not in the sense of the Arrows which had two consecutive corkscrews.

To be honest, I'm not sure it would be quite the same doing it on an invert. I don't know if you all have noticed, but it seems to me that on B&M inverts, the corkscrews noticeable increase their rate of roll at the apex of the corkscrew and return to the original rate a little past the apex, resulting in a bit of a "snap." Arrows tended to have a more fluid, consistent feel to them, so slapping a second corkscrew in there right after the first gave riders a consistent, almost smooth-feeling maneuver. Having two invert corkscrews wouldn't really give that same feel.

Note that I'm not counting the double-barrel roll on the SLC's as corkscrews.

[rollercoasterfreek]

Corkscrews are ok. Sometimes it ruins my neck depending on the angle it is built. Some of the trains are really annoying.

[tycooner55]

^ Most likely Arrow's restraints.

[Ben]

Not in the sense of the Arrows which had two consecutive corkscrews.

To be honest, I'm not sure it would be quite the same doing it on an invert. I don't know if you all have noticed, but it seems to me that on B&M inverts, the corkscrews noticeable increase their rate of roll at the apex of the corkscrew and return to the original rate a little past the apex, resulting in a bit of a "snap." Arrows tended to have a more fluid, consistent feel to them, so slapping a second corkscrew in there right after the first gave riders a consistent, almost smooth-feeling maneuver. Having two invert corkscrews wouldn't really give that same feel.

Note that I'm not counting the double-barrel roll on the SLC's as corkscrews.

Exactly. They're more intense (and I think fun) on inverts, so I thought that it'd be fun if there were two consecutive corkscrews on an invert. But, if they are more intense with the "snap", then maybe they can't put 2 directly in a row because of intensity reasons, or something like that. Also, they are an Arrow trademark, so I can see why they aren't as common. Would love to see some in the future though.

[socalMAN123]

^ Are there any double corks on inverts?
Sorry, my words got a little mixed up there. What I meant to say was like the double corkscrew on Silver Bullet throws me off a little bit. Sorry for the confusion.
---Brent:cool:

[Dan]

But, if they are more intense with the "snap", then maybe they can't put 2 directly in a row because of intensity reasons, or something like that.
No, that's most definately not the reason. Batman has two pretty close, with an intense turnaround between. It's really just because it doesn't fit so well into the design B&M chose for the invert.

[rollercoasterfreek]

Demon at Cedar Fair's great America has two Corkscrews in a row. I don't know if it counts as a double.

Any inversions are nice and smooth on a Bolliger and Mabillard ride. I like the feel of the camelbacks on them.

[theRock-steel]

A lot of the well known inverts are by B&M. That company's rides are known for their smoothness. I wouldn't say that a double corkscrew is smooth.

[rollercoasterfreak91]

Demon at Cedar Fair's great America has two Corkscrews in a row. I don't know if it counts as a double.

Two in a row is a double, but demon isn't an invert. And something I want to clear up, what is the real name of Great America (not SF)? is it California's, CF's, Knott's, just plain Great America? So confused!

[JD71]

^Its going to now be called California's Great America: http://www.rollercoasterpro.com/community/showthread.php?t=179

The whole Knott's Great America thing was just a rumor.

[p0tat0]

They should make a new element called the corkscrew of death, which is the samething as a corkscrew but has an interesting ending

[Michael]

^ hehe, or reverse corkscrew, where you whip downwards, so you get negative g's ;)

[Sam]

^ I've made one of those on No Limits. I've also done the same thing with loops.

[theRock-steel]

You're thinking of Suspended coasters, like Ninja or Big Bad Wolf. We're talking about Inverted coasters from Bolliger and Mabillard (B&M). They are fixed to the track.

Maybe it's been a while, but it seems that some inverts feel like they are swinging a little bit before the final brake run back into the station. You are saying that is simulated by a twisted track. I don't know, it sure feels like we're swinging. In either case, too many corkscrews back to back on anything gives me a headache.
I love long drops and air-time ! :cool:

[Ben]

^ But the point of inverts is inversions (at least imo).

Have you noticed that there are very few inverts with a straight drop, rather than a twisted curved drop. In fact, which inverts do have a straight drop? None that i know on the top of my head

[The Storm Runner]

^Actually Great Bear has a straight drop. You get a ton of air on it. :) 124 ft of goodness. :)

The corkscrew on Great Bear is by far the most intense part of the ride, cause it goes through it at such great speed, to get back up to the station.

[disneylhand]

^Though Great Bear's drop is probably the closest to straight, it still can not be considered straight. http://rcdb.com/ig468.htm?picture=1

Funny, I had that conversation with someone just the other day...

-disneylhand

[Thrill Reconnoiter]

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