Being Open-Minded

[sirloin]

I was talking with my good buddy Mr. Sickles, and we both noticed how extremely defensive people get over certain subjects here on RCPro. It seems that the following topics, as well as a few others, are blasphemous in the RCPro world:

1) Bashing of Cedar Point
2) Bashing of Knott's Berry Farm
3) Bashing of Disneyland
4) Bashing of Kinzel
5) Complimenting Six Flags
6) Several others that I don't feel like listing

I've also noticed severe concentrations on certain regions of the country, even when there's far more to talk about elsewhere. Examples:

1) More discussion on the future of Six Flags Magic Mountain and rides that don't even exist vs. Fahrenheit, an existing ride with powerful significance in terms of the very small footprint necessary to still build a kick-butt attraction.
2) 48 replies to a Scream! vs. Batman-The Ride debate, a thread I thought wouldn't make it past 3 pages, which is 2 shy of matching the number of posts on Voodoo and Evil Knievel combined.
3) The 5 top threads in the Amusement Park New & Rumors forum: 1-Six Flags Magic Mountain Future Thread (139), 2-Six Flags Magic Mountain Announces X2 (91), 3-Disneyland Resort Future Thread (79), 4-Deja Vu to Follow the Same Path as Psyclone? (75), 5-Cedar Point 2008/2009 (53)

Tying in with item number 3 above, of the 5 threads I mentioned, only one, X2, dealt with anything factual. X2 is going to happen. The other 4 are fantasies or rumors. Heck, I wouldn't even mind so much having those threads if other threads about other places were just as popular. However, nobody seems to want to discuss the popularity of GCII's at smaller parks and the possibility that they may be "gateway" coasters of sorts, possibly turning those smaller parks into overnight successes and starting them down the road to prosperity. Nobody really seems to care that Fahrenheit may be the ultimate Eurofighter and hurt the chances of the smaller Gerstlauer product gaining popularity at larger parks. It doesn't seem to interest anybody that maybe the action these days isn't at the juggernaut parks, but at the smaller ones who have land to develop and who have room to expand. Everyone throws a hissy fit that the next coaster going to Knott's Berry Farm is a little family attraction, ignoring the trends in the amusement industry and the fact that it isn't 1998-2002 anymore and the parks that could use those monstrous coasters probably already have them already.

Now let's jump back to my talk on blasphemy. It amazes me how personal people will get in their arguments over their favorite park or whatever. You know what? If a park made such an impact on you that you'll ignore its flaws, that's perfectly fine. Good for that park, and every park should be able to do that (well, they should be flawless, but that will never happen as you simply can't please everyone). However, it's when you try and use your park as support for an argument of yours when it clearly is not the best example. Also, you need to keep in mind that maybe, just maybe if people didn't talk Cedar Point, Disneyland, Knott's, or SFMM up so much and state that nothing can possibly ever beat it, those of us with more parks and rides under our belts wouldn't retaliate so quickly.

I understand that where the most popular parks and rides are, there the most enthusiasts will be. However, I do not believe that those are the places with the most to discuss. If you are happy only ever visiting the world's top ten, good for you. However, don't alienate the people from other regions. Try and be a little open-minded. It's funny that the SoCal people and the CP people are the folks who have been with RCPro the longest (on average). Meanwhile, the people from the other regions just come and go because everyone makes it obvious that nobody cares about those regions. Newsflash: those are the places with the action these days. Go ahead and talk about SoCal, CP, and Florida, but be a little open-minded. There's more than just those 3 regions in the world today. Take the time and learn a little about the industry as a whole. It allows you to better appreciate the industry and the hobby.

Now, I can understand the belief that going to a zillion places all over the world might make some parks less appealing because you'll always be thinking, "I could do this somewhere else. Why am I here?" As someone with a track record of 154 and who has visited some of the majors as well as some of the rarities, let me tell you that going out and seeing the world is more rewarding than just picking one park and sticking with it. And I do understand that at the age many of you are at, you can't go out and see the world, but sometimes just learning about it is plenty enjoyable. You'll get more out of it, and you'll always have something to look forward to do. I ask that you please keep an open mind, take the time to learn and discuss, and you'll have a more rewarding experience here on RCPro. And please show some interest in other regions. I want to hear from the people who have been to places nobody else has. They often have the most interesting things to say. Make them feel welcome.

And a quick rule of thumb: if your avatar is the most interesting thing about your post, don't post it.

[Michael]

Sirloin, I noticed a few things that I thought I would bring up. Please do not take this as a personal attack or anything, because that is far from what I am meaning by this post. Just thought I would bring up some healthy coversation that could make a good difference for RcPro :cool:

________



The 5 top threads in the Amusement Park New & Rumors forum: 1-Six Flags Magic Mountain Future Thread (139), 2-Six Flags Magic Mountain Announces X2 (91), 3-Disneyland Resort Future Thread (79), 4-Deja Vu to Follow the Same Path as Psyclone? (75), 5-Cedar Point 2008/2009 (53)

The only thing I see a problem with is combining the three SFMM threads into one, but what is wrong with the others?


Tying in with item number 3 above, of the 5 threads I mentioned, only one, X2, dealt with anything factual. X2 is going to happen. The other 4 are fantasies or rumors.

First of all, how are the "future threads" fantasies or rumors? These are purpose made threads for discussing future attractions. All forums have them, so why complain?


Nobody really seems to care that Fahrenheit may be the ultimate Eurofighter and hurt the chances of the smaller Gerstlauer product gaining popularity at larger parks.

Isn't that a rumor in itself?



If a park made such an impact on you that you'll ignore its flaws, that's perfectly fine. Good for that park, and every park should be able to do that (well, they should be flawless, but that will never happen as you simply can't please everyone).

Bingo. You can't please everyone, that is why people take sides, when something appeals to them more. And we don't ignore the flaws, wonder why so many people complain about bashing? If anything, the finger pointing gets out of hand.


Also, you need to keep in mind that maybe, just maybe if people didn't talk Cedar Point, Disneyland, Knott's, or SFMM up so much and state that nothing can possibly ever beat it, those of us with more parks and rides under our belts wouldn't retaliate so quickly.

Are you saying those who do have more rides under their belts aren't "talking it up" about the bigger parks? Because that is far from reality. Everyone does it.


It's funny that the SoCal people and the CP people are the folks who have been with RCPro the longest (on average).

How is that funny? It's fairly reasonable that the most popular parks would have the first enthusiasts on a coaster site. And there's no bias there. Just statistics.


You'll get more out of it, and you'll always have something to look forward to do. I ask that you please keep an open mind, take the time to learn and discuss, and you'll have a more rewarding experience here on RCPro.

Right on the money Sirloin, we ALL need to be open minded about the coaster industry, even though it will be hard, just respecting another park or another coaster will help this site out tremendously.



And a quick rule of thumb: if your avatar is the most interesting thing about your post, don't post it.


But what if someone has a really cool avatar that obliterates any post? Say... Steve's current avatar? ;)
j/k

[Jake]

The reason that the Southern California parks are talked about so often is 1) The majority of our members live in the southern california area, and 2) it hosts the most popular parks, quite possibly world wide. Not that, that makes it right, but it's just "the way it is."

As far as being interested in the smaller parks, don't count on it happening anytime soon. Obviously I don't care as much about a coaster that I may never ride, as opposed to a new coaster that is much closer to home. So, yes, I will care more about X2, as opposed to the Evil Knevel clone.

However, I do agree, some people take these criticisms WAY too seriously. Honestly, if my bashing Cedar Point's lack of atmosphere offends you, you've got another thing coming.

Also, if you really want something discussed on the forums, post a thread about the topic, or at the very least bring it up in an existing topic. Complaining about the lack of something being discussed is like complaining about the president, when you didn't vote in the election.

[sirloin]

The only thing I see a problem with is combining the three SFMM threads into one, but what is wrong with the others?I don't mind the threads being separate. However, why do rumor threads get more attention than factual threads? And why is it that those rumor threads have some of the most pointless, wasted discussion while the news threads are the only ones with anything worth reading? And where are your SFGAM, SFOG, WoF, Dollywood, Alton Towers, Europa Park, and Fuji-Q Highland Future threads? Goodness knows there's plenty of interesting stuff going on at those parks. Heck, the action's not at SFMM right now. It's at the smaller parks that are adding new rides that carry more significance than a modification to a 4D coaster, and there's nothing announced for CP for 2008 or 2009 at all. A slab of concrete at CP got more discussion than a GCII at SFSTL. And isn't CP a slab of concrete, anyways? How do we know they weren't just trying to provide a uniform look to the peninsula? ;)


First of all, how are the "future threads" fantasies or rumors? These are purpose made threads for discussing future attractions. All forums have them, so why complain?Most of the discussion in them is complete and utter rubbish. Very few people have anything meaningful to contribute to those threads. If people had the sense to think about what's in the best interests of those parks, they wouldn't be so bad. Seriously, those threads could show the world that some people are really smart and really have good ideas and recommendations for most of the parks. Those threads could be so much more, but they're going in the wrong directions.


Isn't that a rumor in itself?No. There's a difference between a rumor and merely discussing the significance of a ride. I think that it's something to consider seeing as Fahrenheit is essentially a massive Eurofighter and could possibly have an effect on Eurofighter sales. I define a rumor as someone believing something is actually going to happen based on actually having heard something to that effect. It's a tough distinction to make, perhaps, but you should be able to tell the difference.

If not, I suddenly feel as if I'm capable of warping your minds, and perhaps I should exploit that.


Bingo. You can't please everyone, that is why people take sides, when something appeals to them more. And we don't ignore the flaws, wonder why so many people complain about bashing? If anything, the finger pointing gets out of hand.People don't ignore the flaws? Do I even need to bring up the thread on the old forums that had pages on whether or not Cedar Point was a theme park? People seemed to feel Cedar Point was exempt from the rules, and didn't consider the lack of theming a flaw.

And don't worry. I'm not singling you out or anything, but people ignore the flaws of CP all the time. And when they're presented, they try to find some way to explain them away so they aren't considered flaws anymore.


Are you saying those who do have more rides under their belts aren't "talking it up" about the bigger parks? Because that is far from reality. Everyone does it.Are you saying those who do have more rides under their belts aren't "talking it up" about the bigger parks? Because that is far from reality. Everyone does it.We do talk them up. It's when those are the only parks that are talked about that we find something wrong with those parks and attack them for it. Millennium Force is amazing, but when you've never ridden it and you're saying it's probably the best because everybody else says it is, I'll gladly give you 3 examples of rides I think are better.

And even if you have ridden it and say it's the best because nothing else looks as good as it, I'll again give you 3 examples of rides I believe are. Mind you, I don't mind you believing it's the best. It's when you talk down everything else you haven't ridden that irritates me. If you just said, "It's my favorite," I have no problem or argument to that. However, if you say something along the lines of what I mentioned above, then I'll attack.


How is that funny? It's fairly reasonable that the most popular parks would have the first enthusiasts on a coaster site. And there's no bias there. Just statistics.I refer mainly to who is active the longest, not necessarily who registered first. It's the fact that many people outside of SoCal, northern Ohio, and Florida tend to come and go pretty quickly. They feel alienated because nobody shows any interest in their home parks. SFNE has more character, class, and atmosphere than many parks I've been to, but yet nobody seems to care about what goes on there, so what incentive does a New Englander have to join RCPro? If you don't care about SoCal, CP, or Florida, you need to find another site apparently.

There are exceptions, of course, but it's pretty rare to see them stick around for a good long while.


Right on the money Sirloin, we ALL need to be open minded about the coaster industry, even though it will be hard, just respecting another park or another coaster will help this site out tremendously.Now you're catching on.


But what if someone has a really cool avatar that oblitrates any post? Say... Steve's current avatar?I kinda like Dan's more, though Steve's does make me laugh.


The reason that the Southern California parks are talked about so often is 1) The majority of our members live in the southern california area, and 2) it hosts the most popular parks, quite possibly world wide. Not that, that makes it right, but it's just "the way it is."Then let the people who present the numbers, because they think Florida does. Oh, and I believe that SFMM fell short of parks in Sandusky, Hershey, Vaughan, Jackson, Chicago, and several other areas (and that was in no particular order). Also, Japan seems to do pretty well for themselves.


As far as being interested in the smaller parks, don't count on it happening anytime soon. Obviously I don't care as much about a coaster that I may never ride, as opposed to a new coaster that is much closer to home. So, yes, I will care more about X2, as opposed to the Evil Knevel clone.You have X2, which isn't new (but is worthy of discussion, and I'm actually giving that thread my blessing, and Pony Express (which you don't discuss, even though it's an example of the direction the industry is heading down).

And as I've said, fine if you don't want to talk about it, but don't pretend that the most interesting things in the industry are only happening in SoCal. The action is at the smaller parks these days.

Also, if you only want to talk SoCal, I hear Westcoaster is a pretty popular place.


However, I do agree, some people take these criticisms WAY too seriously. Honestly, if my bashing Cedar Point's lack of atmosphere offends you, you've got another thing coming.Ditto. It's not a personal attack.


Also, if you really want something discussed on the forums, post a thread about the topic, or at the very least bring it up in an existing topic. Complaining about the lack of something being discussed is like complaining about the president, when you didn't vote in the election.Fair enough, but you don't have to even be the one to start a thread. Some threads here really interest me, and I'll admit I could post more. It does strike me as funny, though, that I'm an excellent thread-killer. I post one massive post, and nobody replies. If my novels intimidate you, go buy a pop-up book from Barnes & Noble. Sometimes I only have one sentence to say. Sometimes I have a whole book to say. Deal with it.

And just to throw this out there, I find it funny that after getting rid of the non-coaster forum, some people's activity levels dropped drastically. I suppose that shows just how much coasters really meant to some people.

[Tom]

And just to throw this out there, I find it funny that after getting rid of the non-coaster forum, some people's activity levels dropped drastically. I suppose that shows just how much coasters really meant to some people.

I had thought that same exact thing this morning and thought, where did that person go, I mean once the switch to the new forums came they disappeared. It may also be that the elimination of the Non-Coaster Related thread came very close to the end of the 2007, but still there is plenty to talk about during the offseason. Something that has really caught my eye is Ravine Flyer II, that ride looks incredible. Thank you for making this thread, it is important.

[disneylhand]

Sirloin, the only thing I can bring myself to agree with in your original post is the part about getting defensive over favorite parks.
It's just that the fact that you labeled everything in that post of yours (mainly the part about a lack of interest in non-local rides/events) as closed-mindedness. In my eyes, that's just wrong.


I suppose that shows just how much coasters really meant to some people.
You guys make me laugh sometimes.


Also, if you only want to talk SoCal, I hear Westcoaster is a pretty popular place.
...

-disneylhand

[Nate]

Good points Sirloin and I really do agree with you on your view of the forums. I understand that most of the forum's members are located in SoCal, and I have no problem with discussion being geared towards that, but it does miss a big chunk of the industry.

There are a lot of strong personalities posting on these boards, and they are willing and able to reply with something that will contradict what you say no matter how valid your point. I feel like everyone is trying so hard to be heard and be right, even in the rumors section. The pointless posts need to taper off a bit.

I enjoy being on these forums and think that the new ownership has done a fantastic job developing a solid community. I'm glad that you are aware of the concerns of many and that you openly post your thoughts about the community. Thanks for this post and I'm sure we will all keep this in mind when posting.

[Dan]

I don't mind the threads being separate. However, why do rumor threads get more attention than factual threads?
In a factual thread, we can express our opinion on that news or topic. In a rumor thread, the discussion options are much broader, and therefore you'll find more posts in those threads. I think the best threads are the ones like Intamin vs. B&M, why GCII has such an effect, and others like those two. The discussion options aren't limited. In a thread the arrival of Evil Knievel, the discussion is much more concentrated, and people will have less to say about it.


We do talk them up. It's when those are the only parks that are talked about that we find something wrong with those parks and attack them for it. Millennium Force is amazing, but when you've never ridden it and you're saying it's probably the best because everybody else says it is, I'll gladly give you 3 examples of rides I think are better.
I agree completely.



And just to throw this out there, I find it funny that after getting rid of the non-coaster forum, some people's activity levels dropped drastically. I suppose that shows just how much coasters really meant to some people.
My guess is, some people were interested in coasters, lost their interest, but stayed in the wonderful community RCPro is.


I kinda like Dan's more, though Steve's does make me laugh.
Thanks.

[jolash]

I honestly don't see any problem with any of the discussions we have.

When you have a face to face conversation with someone, you can't tell me you talk about the same topic for 2 hours. You eventually drift off into several other discussions. I feel the same should go here, but to an extent. If the discussion eventually drifts off into something a little more off the posted topic, then so be it. Now, if they started to debate what the best Japanese coaster is in that same topic, the line has obviously been crossed. Sometimes I do feel our moderators put us back on track when the discussion to fairly relevant to the posted topic.

If people want to talk for 20 pages about something so, for lack of better terms, bizarre, as Scream vs. Batman, then let it be. If it creates discussion, what's wrong?

That's my 2 cents.

[sirloin]

It's just that the fact that you labeled everything in that post of yours (mainly the part about a lack of interest in non-local rides/events) as closed-mindedness. In my eyes, that's just wrong.What would you call it, then? It's certainly not open-mindedness. As I said, if you don't care, fine, but RCPro is NOT a SoCal website, which alot of people around here seem to forget. If it's a SoCal website, why are our two staff members from Florida hammering out updates at a relentless pace? Why aren't you SoCal people showing us anything? Silly me, I forgot. Maybe because nothing new is happening there. I can't think of another region whose populace throws such a hissy fit over a new attraction because it isn't 200 feet tall with eighteen inversions. I'm not going to accuse every SoCal person here of being that way, because that's unfair, but nobody makes it as apparent that they don't care about things happening outside their region as the SoCal folks. RCPro is supposed to be a site with a focus on the amusement industry as a whole, and that means everything from parks in Boise to parks in China. Well, at least that's what it's supposed to be.

Honestly, pretty much every SoCal person here goes to Westcoaster as well. Why not stay there? Personally, I'd love to know what's going on in SoCal, but not when all I hear about is SoCal, so much so that even when nothing's going on, it's all I hear about. Well, that and Cedar Point, lol.

I do like to know what's going on everywhere. Apparently, Brandon, Arez, Dan, and Jake do too. That's why I enjoy having them around. They're SoCal natives, but they take the time to study the industry as a whole, and it gives them alot more credibility than alot of other people who only care about what the next ride at Mickey's home will be.


You guys make me laugh sometimes.I laugh, too. Some of our biggest posters are now some of our lowest posters. Funny who is on top these days.

It's called Roller Coaster Pro, not Non-Coaster Pro (as the legendary Billy so eloquently put it). I don't care how big your iPod is. I don't care what kind of illegal downloading software you use. You don't care how many different airports I've visited. If we really cared about these things, there's a wonderful invention called AIM. My screen name is xflight2005. If you want to talk something other than coasters with me, there's your ticket.


In a factual thread, we can express our opinion on that news or topic. In a rumor thread, the discussion options are much broader, and therefore you'll find more posts in those threads. I think the best threads are the ones like Intamin vs. B&M, why GCII has such an effect, and others like those two. The discussion options aren't limited. In a thread the arrival of Evil Knievel, the discussion is much more concentrated, and people will have less to say about it.Fair enough, but the X2 modification was a very specific topic, and yet it obliterated the Evil Knievel thread.

But yes, Intamin vs. B&M was amazing. Then everybody agreed and it died, and then some people with interesting avatars (inside joke described in post #1) said their peace.

And yes, broader topics will win. I really like the possibilities present with a future thread. It's when it doesn't live up to its potential that I get disappointed. But then, I could try and help that, and I probably should.


When you have a face to face conversation with someone, you can't tell me you talk about the same topic for 2 hours. You eventually drift off into several other discussions. I feel the same should go here, but to an extent. If the discussion eventually drifts off into something a little more off the posted topic, then so be it. Now, if they started to debate what the best Japanese coaster is in that same topic, the line has obviously been crossed. Sometimes I do feel our moderators put us back on track when the discussion to fairly relevant to the posted topic.Off-topicness is sometimes the best thing for a particular thread. I definitely agree. Yes, there is a line, but many threads would die alot sooner were it not for off-topicness.


If people want to talk for 20 pages about something so, for lack of better terms, bizarre, as Scream vs. Batman, then let it be. If it creates discussion, what's wrong?Fine if it generates discussion. Tell me, though, why on Earth a debate between a parking-lot, un-themed floorless vs. an inverted legend has so many more posts than many of the better threads? Are people here incapable of discussing anything more intellectually stimulating than that?

Honestly, I just want to know what RCPro really means to you. Really, I want a fun forum atmosphere. I do think that sometimes the most basic, pointless threads are necessary to remind us that the amusement industry is supposed to be fun. I love joking around with people here. It livens up the place and reminds us that this is supposed to be entertainment. I'm just saying that hearing about 1 region of the country constantly is not entertaining, and it hurts my chances about hearing of great experiences elsewhere in the country because some people here make those folks in other regions feel as if nobody cares. I want to hear from more Chicagoans, Missourians, Minnesotans, Georgians, etc., etc.

[Mike T]

There are a lot of strong personalities posting on these boards, and they are willing and able to reply with something that will contradict what you say no matter how valid your point. I feel like everyone is trying so hard to be heard and be right, even in the rumors section. The pointless posts need to taper off a bit.

I am very very happy that you just mentioned this because I've felt the same way for the past 3 months or so. Really, its great and everything to have a strong opinion, and a great personality at that, but when the discussion turns from caring about the topic to caring about getting back at somebody, thats where the pivoting point from good to sour lies. I have no problem with people questioning other people's opinions, but I do have a problem when somebody calls somebody else's thoughts garbage. Its immature and doesn't do anything to make the situation better.

On the topic of what we are discussing, I can see this from both points of view. First and foremost, a lot of you should have noticed that RCPro's updates have shifted from Southern California to Florida. These updates are meant not only for showcasing the things we love, but they are also there to generate discussion. When all of the updates are coming out of the Southeastern United States, its kind of hard not to justify why things are the way they are. The wheels that squeak the loudest will receive the most attention.

Sure, there is also the Southern California population, which makes up a vast amount of people on this website. I have no problem with people talking about X^2 or Pony Express for that matter. Heck if I lived in Southern California I'd be guilty of talking about them too. Those additions are exciting, and when the majority of this website will be able to experience them, its no wonder why they get the most attention. Ever see me posting about X^2? Its all fair game.

Although, wishful thinking on my part would also say that I wish people would think more about George's Parks, or the parks that Nick and Zburns live by. Its good to see that Brandon is getting to talk about Silverwood, so I mean, theres a start...Heck, lets talk about stuff in China. Did you all know that Chimelong Paradise is getting a Dive Machine for the 2008 season? There's so much interesting stuff out there to look at, and rather than placing blame on certain faculties of this website, I think it'd be much better if everybody took a little initiative to post about other realms of the Amusement Industry. I think if you want to look at some good examples of people who are diverse on this forum, you should take a look at Nick, Tatsuterror Dan, Jake (only because he posts so dang much lol), and George ( all the way out in London...who would of thunk it ;) ). I'm not saying these are perfect members or anything, because I know for a fact that I can point out flaws in each one of them if I wanted to, but just take a look at how spread out they are. Thats how this forum should be, and I hope that it will start to shift that way as time goes on.

[Youhow2]

I don't mind the threads being separate. However, why do rumor threads get more attention than factual threads?



Because once the fact are put into threads, no one can really say anything except "OMG THIS IS GONNA BE AWESOME". The occasional off-season ride construction update is rare, So all we can do is speculate about the amazingness of the ride in itself...Which I am sorry to say seems to loses most people intrest after a quater of the page. There is the occasional, "OMG that zero-g roll looks orgasmic!". but until we get more facts to discuss, what can we talk about...all the speculation is now based on facts, and once it has been acknowledged by the users, people move on, because all you can do at that point is sit and wait for more updates, unless you would like to talk about the buisness aspect's of the ride, which most enthusiast would find rather boring...

Maverick's discussion on the old website was like 100+ pages of CP fanboys going, "OMG this is going to be huge", until it was announced, then it was 400+ pages of CP fanboys high-fiving each other and renacting and discussing the wet dreams they had the previous night to the CGI POV video... Even though, I will admit it is a great coaster, It was extremely hyped-up, It got delayed due to a critical error in calculations and track design (and was still uber-glorified during this period), someone brought this bit of info up, and then they got bashed by CP fanboys trying to say it wasnt "very critical" and didnt matter because the ride was still so awesome, though no one in the forum had ridden it yet...

I know that last bit seemed unnessacary, but the point I was trying to make was how close-minded this board is. I said the layout wasnt very unique, minus the horseshoe roll(in the thread)and it had all been done before, and I had everyone bashing me, saying it was the most unique coaster of the decade, and crap like that...

What this all boils down to is the general opinion of the boards. There are a bunch of mindless dudes on here who probally only have the coasters at their local under the belt, who think if they been to 20 themeparks they will fit in better, so they lie and say they've been accross the country. These people know who they are, and older members on the board can easily identify you. I too was a mindless west coast "SFMM is the best ever" brat when I joined...Shortly after I joined I moved to virginia and actually rode everything I said I rode at every park I said I've been to. My opinion has changed drastically since that, even though I still love SFMM I realize someone saying something negative about it that is true does not require giving them a fanboy bashing... If people were more honest, and more open we wouldnt have any of these problems, but we are all stubborn human beings, so what one may view as a good discussion, maybe rendered "dumb" by another user... It's called opinion...get used to it...




Speculating threads (i.e SFMM's future) Speculate off of rumors and weird things seen across the park are active because it's always changing and there is always something new to find out...

[sirloin]

Ever see me posting about X^2?You, sir, need diversity training! lol ;)


Because once the fact are put into threads, no one can really say anything except "OMG THIS IS GONNA BE AWESOME".No, YOU can't say anything besides that. Well, the same is true for a few others. You could try discussing the significance of the ride at the park it's at, the significance of the style of ride it is, whether or not it shows any trends in the amusement industry, why it's a good or bad idea, etc., but perhaps I'm asking a bit much.


...but until we get more facts to discuss, what can we talk about...See above.


...unless you would like to talk about the buisness aspects of the ride, which most enthusiast would find rather boring...That's funny. That's what they talk about on Coasterbuzz, and Coasterbuzz kills us in terms of activity levels.


There are a bunch of mindless dudes on here who probably only have the coasters at their local park under the belt, who think if they've been to 20 theme parks they will fit in better, so they lie and say they've been accross the country.Um...when do they lie? They act like they've seen it all, but they don't actually lie and say they have. And apparently, if you've only been to your local park, you do fit in better here.


Speculating threads (i.e SFMM's future) speculate off of rumors and weird things seen across the park are active because it's always changing and there is always something new to find out...Oh really? Because I haven't learned jack squat in most of those rumor threads, nor have I found out anything other than everybody wants an amazing B&M, Gravity Group woodie, or Intamin rocket or woodie, and I knew that when we first started those threads so long ago.

[Comet]

SFNE has more character, class, and atmosphere than many parks I've been to, but yet nobody seems to care about what goes on there, so what incentive does a New Englander have to join RCPro? If you don't care about SoCal, CP, or Florida, you need to find another site apparently.

That is actually, almost word for word, how I feel.
Including the SFNE having more class then most parks I've visited park.

The incentive I actually had to join was pretty much just for Summer Showdown, then I got into the Amusement Industry discussion here. But I must admit, my interest in this forum has died down drastically after being an active member for about only a month.

[Dan]

...unless you would like to talk about the buisness aspects of the ride, which most enthusiast would find rather boring...
I and many other enthusiasts I know find this to be one of the most interesting topics of conversation (regarding roller coasters). While you may not be interested in anything but riding coasters, don't speak for everyone else, or "most enthusiast[s]."


Um...when do they lie? They act like they've seen it all, but they don't actually lie and say they have. And apparently, if you've only been to your local park, you do fit in better here....Which is another major reason why most 'hot' conversations pertain in some way to Southern California.

[Youhow2]

I and many other enthusiasts I know find this to be one of the most interesting topics of conversation (regarding roller coasters). While you may not be interested in anything but riding coasters, don't speak for everyone else, or "most enthusiast[s]."

...Which is another major reason why most 'hot' conversations pertain in some way to Southern California.


I dont believe I said I didnt care about the buisness aspect of rides and how their placement in a park will affect the park Sirlion, I love that...We just dont have too much of that on RCpro...And sometimes there really isnt anything to say about the buisness aspect of the ride... I do love talking about relocations especially...

The most serious discussions I've seen here were in "The thread of which we do not speak of anymore...Or else Steve's seal will eat you".

btw by most enthusiast I meant on this website...sorry about that.

And Trust me, I know people who talk like they have been to the park before, and never even left their own state.;)

[theRock-steel]

I really have only one comment about your starting post. It has to do with "#1 Bashing of Cedar Point". If you do this you will probably not get banned from RCPro (Steve K, Ryan Sickles, etc. seem like intelligent people). The problem would be that you would get a really long thread will a million people getting angry and personal. CP is not one of my top five favorite parks because of the long lines there, nothing more. Three of my favorite coasters and one of my favorite flat rides are there; that will never change. It's just that I can ride what I think is a better coaster 4 times in a row in Florida, Georgia, Pennsylvania, or Virginia in the same amount of time as I can ride 1 in New Jersey or Ohio, that's all. CP has a great reputation, has earned many awards, and has a long history of having many cutting-edge coasters and thrill rides. That's why people like it so much.

[disneylhand]

I'd call it being interested in what one would naturally find themselves interested in.

And yeah, I don't know if you're talking at the particular group that I fall into, and I also don't know if my situation is the same as others in this group, but I know that I personally am just as fascinated by a coaster half way around the world as I would be if it was being built in my backyard when it comes to design. The fact that I may have the chance to ride it is what keeps me following and contributing to discussion. And as far as us a 'community', I don't think we've ever been unwelcoming to, well--anyone. Asking someone to find interest in something is too much; but you're not necessarily doing it to that extent. More like proposing the idea... idk.

I'm really interested to know who or what type of user is considered to be "top." I guess I'm not seeing the invisibly 'community' hierarchy.

-disneylhand

[rollercoasterfreek]

I had thought that same exact thing this morning and thought, where did that person go, I mean once the switch to the new forums came they disappeared. It may also be that the elimination of the Non-Coaster Related thread came very close to the end of the 2007, but still there is plenty to talk about during the offseason. Something that has really caught my eye is Ravine Flyer II, that ride looks incredible. Thank you for making this thread, it is important.
I do miss the Non-coaster related forums abit. During the offseason, there isn't as much to talk about so I usually will talk in the non-coaster related forums just to keep talking to some people. My posting activity has shortened a bit from this. I know I am the guy who keeps talking about college football but the non-coaster threads are a way of saying "hey I like talking about other things with you besides coasters"

I don't have much outside ways of contact so this site and another forums are ways I talk.


People are so defensive about their parksI think people have this "pride" in their region. I am a North California guy but I like So. Cal things. In my area I like SFDK but it has flaws. That are way too many at Great America. I admit I can be close-minded on some things outside of Coaster talk but I can stay open minded here. There are alot of posts on SFMM where everyone seems to talk about it.

[Matt]

I honestly see more posts on Florida Parks than I do on other parks (With SoCal parks being the only exception).

I love how some people think its ok to defend their opinions on their home parks, but right when people who attempt to defend Cedar Point their automatically considered fanboys.

[sirloin]

I love how some people think its ok to defend their opinions on their home parks, but right when people who attempt to defend Cedar Point their automatically considered fanboys.Not everybody. It's just that many times CP fans use arguments so riddled with poor logic caused only by a severe love of the place, making them fanboys. Defend CP if you want. I won't consider you a fanboy unless there are glaring holes in your logic that shouldn't be there.

Matt, that's not a problem you tend to suffer from, so don't worry about it. However, I can understand where you're coming from, because sometimes people do try and throw fanboy out there to discredit those who disagree with them when there's no legitimate reason for it.

[Thrill Reconnoiter]

The only reason I joined this site was to talk about my local park's 400ft Flyer! Ugh. :mad:

Okay, seriously, some people do join just to discuss what's happening at their local park-and I think that is totally fine. What I believe the main topic of this thread is, and the deeper root that Justin is getting at, is perhaps inquiring some interest globally will better your appreciation of the things you ride.

"You must first leave home, to better understand home."

I know it's the "off-season" in some states, but that doesn't justify shameless posts. This is the reason the NCR left, and why certain regional thread(s) had the most discussion: People can't think of anything to say, so they go to their local parks thread and just post, "Looks good," "That's cool," and calls it a day-only to rush over to NCR where they have something so *important* to share...like their iPods new homescreen.

I hope no one takes this as force-fed info; you must find your own paramount interest. We have something like 4 pages in the relocated Deja Vu thread. Personally, I think it's a bad ride and I despise it. I wouldn't care if all the GIB's were sold to scrap yards. However, I've been following Greezed Lightnin's restoration at Larson (http://www.joylandpark.com/coaster.html) because I think flywheel Schwarzkopfs are an awesome ride and I'm sure Joyland is glad to have it. Do we even have a thread for it? Nope.



I love how some people think its ok to defend their opinions on their home parks, but right when people who attempt to defend Cedar Point their automatically considered fanboys.
As Justin so eloquently put it, no one is trying to just come out of the blue with the label. It's loop-hole logic and theories that don't add up...like the excusable term "amusement park" is the magic key to grant the ability to excuse interactiveness and thematics, or ship enough truckloads of trashcans to build a fort with them. In case you guys forgot, parks like Hershey, Busch, and Dollywood don't outright call themselves a theme park either.

But really, I don't think this is what the thread is about.

[Jake]

I'll be the first to admit, the only reason I joined this site was to say something like.. "OMFG TAUGHTSUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!" Than I was banned, twice, and here we are. I think most of us joined this site (or whatever our first enthusiast site was) merely to "OMG" about our home park. I didn't join this site to talk about whether or not GCII's are great small park kick starters (although it is a great thread, and now a days I love taking part in such discussions).

So, while there is nothing wrong with wanting to talk about your home park all the time, don't sacrifice the quality in your post, just so you can get a post out there. Honestly, if you have nothing intelligent to contribute to a conversation, than don't post. Guys like Justin, Ryan, both Dans, Mike, Max, they all put a heck of a lot of thought into what they're talking about.

Start posting and thinking about things like these guys, and it'll move the discussion on this site to a whole other level.

[Dan]

You must first leave home, to better understand home.
Couldn't be better placed. This was the first coaster site I joined, I'm sure the same goes for some other members as well. When I joined, I didn't know what a MCBR or Intamin was, and I thought a PM was a message sent in the afternoon. I saw a crapload of Tatsu updates after I somehow found the site while searching Google, and now, here I am. Here we are. Although there are some bad threads and posts around these days, that's just the nature of an internet forum. But look at most of the popular threads as of late (discluding regionals). That's some damn high quality discussion, and I haven't once seen someone get defensive, or act in a 'close-minded' fashion. And Jake, about moving the discussion to a whole new level...I think the discussions going on right now are on a pretty high intellectual level, and although they can always go higher, I'm proud to participate in conversations here.


I love how some people think its ok to defend their opinions on their home parks, but right when people who attempt to defend Cedar Point their automatically considered fanboys.


Justin's response is right. People with other home parks tend to develop more worthy evidence for backing up that park, whereas Cedar Point is so big and powerful in the enthusiast community that it gathers mindless followers that defend it, yet don't really know how to defend it correctly.

[Matt]

Well I can only hope I'm not seen as one of them. I do love my Cedar Point's, but it is in no way shape or form the best park in the world. It can just be a bit frustrating when people play the Fanboy card.

But I have to admit, a huge fort of Trash cans from all the CF parks would be pretty sweet.

[rollercoasterfreek]

I tend to be neutral on things since I haven't experienced going to CP or SFMM. I can only have an opinion based on the ride facts on RCDB and other websites.

[sirloin]

I tend to be neutral on things since I haven't experienced going to CP or SFMM. I can only have an opinion based on the ride facts on RCDB and other websites.I find that waiting until you actually ride the ride or visit the park to formulate an opinion is the best way to avoid getting clobbered in a debate, but whatever floats your boat. There are times where you can use what other people say to formulate an argument, but you have to be VERY careful in how you do it, lest you get creamed.

[tycooner55]

I tend to favor certain parks, but I'm not blind to each ones faults. No park or coaster is perfect. Some are close, but every one can be logically praised or disliked.

[theRock-steel]

To Mr. Sickles, pardon my ignorance, but who or what is "NCR" ?


I tend to favor certain parks, but I'm not blind to each ones faults. No park or coaster is perfect. Some are close, but every one can be logically praised or disliked.

Although that is largely common sense, it is by far one of the smartest statements I have ever seen about coasters / parks.

[sirloin]

NCR stands for non-coaster-related. It was a forum dedicated to everything outside of theme parks. However, it became the focal point of the forums after a forum games section was removed, and when we moved here to the new site, it was decided that it would be in the best interests of RCPro to remove it.

And please, don't assume that I'm saying you have to hate CP or SFMM, and I'm not even saying you aren't allowed to be blind to its faults. What I am saying is that if you choose to ignore its faults, be very quiet about it, because as soon as you try and throw out that a place is perfect, you're in for a world of hurt.

[JD71]

As I said, if you don't care, fine, but RCPro is NOT a SoCal website, which alot of people around here seem to forget. If it's a SoCal website, why are our two staff members from Florida hammering out updates at a relentless pace? Why aren't you SoCal people showing us anything? Silly me, I forgot. Maybe because nothing new is happening there.

Hmm, If I remember right, last time I tried to do an update on SFMM, my PTR was deleted by staff. I don't want to respark the whole controversy again, but I'm just saying, last time I tried, I got rejected.

Also, I don't have time to go to parks anymore, I'm more busy with either school or my girlfriend. Instead of going to SFMM a couple times a month, I go out somewhere with Kayla, or just stay home, because I don't have the money for it ...or a drivers license ...yet.

Also, to that last part, every time I visit I notice alot of new things, but as I just said, I have other things to do then go to SFMM.



Honestly, pretty much every SoCal person here goes to Westcoaster as well. Why not stay there? Personally, I'd love to know what's going on in SoCal, but not when all I hear about is SoCal, so much so that even when nothing's going on, it's all I hear about. Well, that and Cedar Point, lol.

Ok, a couple years ago I did go to westcoaster, but not anymore.
At first I loved how they frequently had updates on the parks I was most interested in at the time, but after a while the humor became unbearable and I couldnt stand it anymore. I haven't touched the site since.

No offense to the guys at westcoaster, just saying I don't like the type of humor.



It's called Roller Coaster Pro, not Non-Coaster Pro (as the legendary Billy so eloquently put it). I don't care how big your iPod is. I don't care what kind of illegal downloading software you use. You don't care how many different airports I've visited. If we really cared about these things, there's a wonderful invention called AIM. My screen name is xflight2005. If you want to talk something other than coasters with me, there's your ticket.

If you didn't want anything to do with non-coaster related, then you could've simply ignored it. If you didn't want to talk about ipods then just stay out of the thread.

Hmm, this can actually go for any thread, if you don't care or want anything do with it, then just stay out of it.

With AIM, its not the same. A one on one conversation or chat with invited people isn't the same as a thread where anyone can jump in and give their view or advice.


Lets say someone I've never talked to before created a NCR thread where he showed off his amazing glow sticking skills. I probably never would've even known there was a subculture about it.

Or maybe someonehad a family incident and needed advice on something, and I had a great answer that would help him out, without the NCR he would never known what I had to say.

What if something really interesting happened in the news, like maybe something to do with the upcoming elections or something. It doesn't belong in any other place because it has nothing to do with coasters, but it'd be pretty important and discussion worthy.

There are also times when you just want to get away from the coaster talk and speak about something else for a change, with the NCR it was as easy as pie.

It was a place where we could get to know our fellow members on different levels, instead of just coasters.


I know that it wont be coming back any time soon, but I enjoyed it while it lasted.

[thatdancingbear]

^^ Why do we post on RCPro about coasters, and not conduct ALL of our coaster communication over AIM? Why should one topic be perfectly acceptable on AIM, while one not?

Once again, in the best interest of RCPro, and not the RCPro community, which is (as quoted by many staff before) why RCPro is still here.

[GeorgeBC]

^^ Why do we post on RCPro about coasters, and not conduct ALL of our coaster communication over AIM? Why should one topic be perfectly acceptable on AIM, while one not?

Once again, in the best interest of RCPro, and not the RCPro community, which is (as quoted by many staff before) why RCPro is still here.

Your more than free to conduct your conversations on Roller Coasters via AIM, but RCPro is here for Roller Coaster discussion, news and information, it's what it's meant to be, the reason why one is perfectly acceptable is because this is a Roller Coaster enthusiast forum, it's meant to be about coaster discussions. That's why it's OK for coaster discussion and not the other.

Non-Coaster-Related is not a rite, it's a privilege and it was being excessively used and basically lowered the quality I felt of RCPro, sure it's nice to get to know people, but when it consumes the forum it has to go, in my opinion since it's removal quality discussion has drastically increased.

People need to get over the issue and stop being bitter about it, it's not coming back so you just have to swallow it and deal with it, having constant comments and remarks about it is just becoming annoying, it was removed for a reason to benefit RCPro and in my opinion it's done wonders.

My post is completely off topic but I had to get this off my chest as it's rather frustrating. As for being open minded, the forum is obviously SoCal based so discussion will always be a bit more influenced in that perspective but it's improving and the forum is becoming more diverse, but it's hard for most people to become interested in something that's not close to them, everyone has their favourite parks and is slightly biased to an extent but hopefully with more updates diversity will improve gradually.

[Dan]

Non-Coaster-Related is not a rite, it's a privilege and it was being excessively used and basically lowered the quality I felt of RCPro, sure it's nice to get to know people, but when it consumes the forum it has to go, in my opinion since it's removal quality discussion has drastically increased. The point of the site is obviously to attract members and keep them, as well as discuss coasters, and if all members want the forum back it makes sense to put it back. I don't want it back, but that's just a point I thought I'd make.


As I said, if you don't care, fine, but RCPro is NOT a SoCal website, which alot of people around here seem to forget. If it's a SoCal website, why are our two staff members from Florida hammering out updates at a relentless pace? Why aren't you SoCal people showing us anything? Silly me, I forgot. Maybe because nothing new is happening there. Well, Pony Express construction has begun obviously, and DLR has a lot going on. But, schools are hammering me (and probably others) pretty hard right now, so it is hard to get out to parks all the time. Plus, our updates don't get on the main page (which I believe is a mistake), so there's a bit less incentive. The forum is made up mostly of SoCal residents, but looking at the main page, one would think we all live in Florida.

[sirloin]

Hmm, If I remember right, last time I tried to do an update on SFMM, my PTR was deleted by staff. I don't want to respark the whole controversy again, but I'm just saying, last time I tried, I got rejected.Then I suppose you should not post anything excessively controversial and potentially damaging to the site's relationship with parks. Granted, I'm not positive you did, but I highly doubt it would have been deleted for any other reason.


If you didn't want anything to do with non-coaster related, then you could've simply ignored it. If you didn't want to talk about ipods then just stay out of the thread.Precisely the same thing several people like you did with coaster-related things.


Hmm, this can actually go for any thread, if you don't care or want anything do with it, then just stay out of it.I suppose that mentality explains why some of the folks with the highest post counts on the old RCPro have some of the lowest ones now.


With AIM, its not the same. A one on one conversation or chat with invited people isn't the same as a thread where anyone can jump in and give their view or advice.Considering many threads only involved a couple of people that contributed more than one post to the thread, it looked like an AIM conversation.


There are also times when you just want to get away from the coaster talk and speak about something else for a change, with the NCR it was as easy as pie.When it's all the time, it's something we need to evaluate. And evaluate we did, and now the forum is gone. Our evaluation? People defined RCPro by that forum, and it needed to be eliminated.


It was a place where we could get to know our fellow members on different levels, instead of just coasters.Which is what it was supposed to be. It wasn't supposed to be the focal forum on the site, which several of you made it.


Why do we post on RCPro about coasters, and not conduct ALL of our coaster communication over AIM? Why should one topic be perfectly acceptable on AIM, while one not?Because this is RCPro, a forum designed to let you talk about coasters as a community. Isn't it up to the people who made the site to determine what is discussed on it?


Once again, in the best interest of RCPro, and not the RCPro community, which is (as quoted by many staff before) why RCPro is still here.Groups of members have destroyed the reputation of the site several times in the past. Some of those members are gone now because they have no way of doing it anymore. No loss to me. Quite frankly, when RCPro is where some of us would like it to be, we won't have the people who throw hissy fits about not being able to talk about their iPods. And interestingly enough, the new people here will have that opportunity.

Considering how this site has nearly been destroyed several times over by that NCR forum, and the old forum games section, I think we made a pretty good decision. And if we lose people because they don't like that they can't talk about their iPods in this forum anymore, were those people really all that big of a loss anyways? It seems to me that the people who have earned my utmost respect aren't in here complaining right now about that missing forum. And what makes me sad is that there used to be people I really respected who gave up on coasters and thrived on the NCR forum.

You need to stop and ask yourself why you're really here. Honestly, some of you have really stepped up with that forum gone, and I'm impressed. I'm getting to see sides of members I've never seen before, and our best threads have longer lifespans these days because it's what there is to talk about. And someday, when we've weeded out the people who aren't here for coasters and we're confident that bringing that forum back will not cause RCPro any harm, it will return.

As far as I'm concerned, though, if you leave because of the lack of a NCR forum, I ask that you try and be careful to avoid having the door hit you on the way out.

[Michael]

^ I have an idea, why not have the forum administrators create a certain few threads in a NCR, and only admins could create threads in the NCR. That way they could control the amount of traffic flow. :cool:

just an idea...

[sirloin]

Really, that would be pointless and patronizing to the members. None of the staff miss it all that much, so what point would there be? We've (meaning the staff) learned to live without it and like it better this way (well, all but maybe one of us).

Trust me, it's the best thing to do right now. It was a privilege, it got abused, and so why on Earth do we owe anybody that forum? We don't. People had their chance. They didn't heed our warnings everytime we tried to get them to move some of that activity from that forum, and they lost the forum as a result. There were second, third, eight million, two hundred thirty-three thousand, seven hundred and ninety-eighth chances to save that forum, and they didn't take them.

[GeorgeBC]

The point of the site is obviously to attract members and keep them, as well as discuss coasters, and if all members want the forum back it makes sense to put it back. I don't want it back, but that's just a point I thought I'd make.

It's not all members though, it's just a constant minority that keep going on about it, many other forums I'm on seem to do fine without having an off topic forum and others that have them hardly ever get used as people do not feel the need to discuss anything other than the Theme Park industry, they have the usual introduction topic and that's about it. Justin pretty much summed everything up perfectly...

[Tom]

I am throwing my two cents in this one time, and then I am gone, this is getting ridiculous honestly. If you can't deal without a Non-Coaster Related forum, how much of an enthusiast are you REALLY? If you want to talk about how much more amazing the iPod is compared to a Zune, then do it on AIM, but don't waste the bandwidth of a ROLLER COASTER with it. Honestly its possibly the simplest concept to stand, yet you guys act like it is the most important thing in the world. Justin, I agree with you 100%, its been awesome seeing what some people have to say on these forums now that the NCR is gone. I respect certain people more, others less because they are the ones who have stopped posting. I am in study mode for all my finals next week and do I have all the time in the world to post? No, but when I feel like there is something important to touch on, I will.

Just discuss the industry or leave if that is too hard to do.

[sirloin]

Honestly, I've seen sides of several members here I've never seen before. My mad props to Jake, who has been in the zone lately. And I admire the people who were NCR maniacs that decided, "Hey, you know what? Let's stick it out for love of the coasters and parks!" And guess what? This forum is in the best shape it's been in for a while.

Again, this thread was not meant to be an anti-SoCal thread. In reaching out to all corners of the globe, do we not still need SoCal, Ohio, and Florida in there? I just want to make sure people take the time to enjoy everything. There's lots to see and do out there. Take the time to check it out.

[Mike T]

Yes I understand that the Non Coaster Forum helped to bring people closer together, but sometimes I think that a close community can hinder the diversity of a forum. Instead of a group of well rounded opinions, friendships and alliances can get in the way and sway the way people think. I'm definately not saying that this is a bad thing, because I've found some good friendships through this website, some for which I'm very fortunate to have...even though sometimes it doesn't seem that way, because our thoughts collide big time. But thats besides the point...

The point is that I think the Non Coaster was a lot of fun for sure, but it wasn't healthy at all for the subject matter of this website.

[Youhow2]

Ehhh... More arguing about the freaking NCR....

I know I've been known for making some of the lousiest topics in that forum, but even though I loved that forum, I can see why the staff decided to let it go...

My old routine used to be, read all rollercoaster topics, then go post in the NCR. I still came to RCpro for the coaster discussions, but the NCR gave me a place to relax, and talk about global issues, and just flat out retarded things. Now with it gone, the only reason I visit Rcpro is to talk about coasters... the problem is, is that you can only talk so much about the same thing before your head explodes...I let some of that steam out in the NCR...Or alot of it...lol

Now I post less(but I still visit the site everyday), and only post when there is something that I really need to, or want to say... In other words, the NCR kept me active(visibly) on the site. Now I see little need to post and be active in the community simply because communication between people has been severed, and to tell you the truth, emailing some random person to talk about football, or how much ipods suck is extremely creepy...The NCR allowed for anyone to join the discussion. Quite frankly I dont think it worked(yes I'm actually admitting it WAS flawed) because of the simple fact the mods and admins let too many things go untouched, maybe in the future enforce some stricter posting laws, especially in the maybe never returning NCR?... I know I should have been given some kinda ban about 20 times over...

Everyone else who is complaing that it's gone, pretty much knows I should be dubbed prince of off-topic discussion, but it is gone. Deal with it, or leave..You dont have to countinue to visit here. If you really want to talk about random things, go to a chat room. All though with that being said, It would be nice to get to know members more without looking like a creepy internet stalker, and doing it in the forum... R.I.P NCR...

[theRock-steel]

What I am saying is that if you choose to ignore its faults, be very quiet about it, because as soon as you try and throw out that a place is perfect, you're in for a world of hurt.

In my book, no park is an A+ and no ride is a 10.
BGE is an A- (hard to walk up all those hills, it has no wooden, and it has no family coaster) .
Millennium, Apollo's, Goliath (SFOG), and Nitro are all 9's.

[thedeadfrog]

-Request to move this thread to the RCPRO Discussion forum, it does not belong in a forum about the amusment industry, since it went from on topic (about how poeple need to be more open minded about what is going on in the coaster world) to off topic (complaining about the NCR, and other discussion about the Rollercoasterpro.com forum)

[sirloin]

...the problem is, is that you can only talk so much about the same thing before your head explodes...Um...I think everyone realizes that. We aren't holding a gun to your head telling you that you absolutely have to talk about coasters for at least 2 hours out of your day. If you aren't interested, you aren't interested. I don't get this, "I absolutely have to be here talking" mentality. There are periods of time where I barely post because simply put, I don't have much to say.

[/quote=Youhow2]Now I post less(but I still visit the site everyday), and only post when there is something that I really need to, or want to say... In other words, the NCR kept me active (visibly) on the site.[/quote]Again, why do you absolutely have to be posting? If you're even reading about coasters and enjoying it, then RCPro has done its job.

And to emphasize on the quote: "the NCR kept me active (visibly) on the site," that's not what you're supposed to be here for.

Simply put, RCPro is an online community designed to allow you all to share about your love of roller coasters. That's what brought you here. And I'd like to think that you all would realize just how much you relate to everyone else here by your love of coasters alone. That's what everybody is missing. Everybody thinks that they need to find that kid with the same glow-sticking passion that they already have. Not true. I can relate to The Storm Runner because we both love Hersheypark. I think he's 8 years my junior. If a 21 year-old can relate to a 13 year-old because of a love of coasters, that should tell you that some of you are looking too hard to find ways to relate.

Also, I don't want the false assumption that this site is not supposed to be good, fun coaster talk. It is, but know the boundaries of goofing off.

Heck, if you absolutely, positively loved one particular ride, share that! A thread entitled "Titan rocks" is a perfectly acceptable thread.

I do admit, sometimes the lines of acceptable discussion and flat-out nonsense are a bit blurry, but with time, you'll figure out what works and what doesn't. RCPro does not have to be about business alone. I simply ask that you please hold off on pressing that post button unless you actually have something to say that will contribute to the discussion, and when you master the art of doing that, you'll be set.

[Youhow2]

Well my point was more of, "when there werent any rides to talk about or any good news, I'd post in the NCR to have some fun "... Isnt that what it was there for?


But as I said...It is over, I can live without it, but I did enjoy it...And woul love to see it return soeday...

[sirloin]

Well my point was more of, "when there weren't any rides to talk about or any good news, I'd post in the NCR to have some fun "... Isnt that what it was there for?No, it was there for the reasons we said it was there: to talk about things other than coasters and to get to know people on different levels. However, several people took it as their own little post playground and it severely hurt the site's reputation. It's this mentality that you absolutely have to be posting that is so screwed up. If there's nothing to talk about, guess what? You don't talk. You're basically saying that you post for the sake of posting. That's not what this site is here for, and if you simply like to post for the heck of it, you need to find another site.

Heck, the NCR was supposed to be fun. Too many people went overboard with it, though, and it became more ridiculous than fun, at least for those of us who understood it and its limitations.

[theRock-steel]

Praises to whoever put the lock on Scream vs. Batman. That got silly really fast. I'm not a big fan of anything with "vs.". You could do those type of things all day. The Intamin vs. B&M left out so many other quality steel coaster builders. I was going to start a Steel vs. Wood, but most of us have probably already made up our mind and that won't change.
When people start being argumentative, mean, or silly, I act like an adult , take a step back, keep my hands off the keyboard, and log out. I want nothing to do with that. Whatever happened, it was only an opinion, it was only a ride. There is enough of both of those to go around.

[sirloin]

The B&M vs. Intamin thread was great. That was an intelligent topic (kudos to T-TimeKSU for that brilliant discussion). Scream! vs. Batman was ridiculous. You're getting WAY too specific and the two rides you were comparing were far more difficult to compare. Had it been Scream! vs. Medusa, that would have even been better because they are at least of the same coaster style. Honestly, I think the best way to go about it would be to ask, "What's the best floorless?"

Part of my beef about that right now, though, is that much of the membership around here has only been to a very small number of parks, and I don't like a thread about the best floorless containing only Medusa at SFDK and Scream! in the discussion, but that can't be helped. Intamin vs. B&M worked because most people had likely been on several rides from each and you would get a better discussion out of it.

And Steel vs. Wood might be a bit more interesting if more of us had been on good wooden coasters, lol, but that topic could work sometime in the future.

[Youhow2]

No, it was there for the reasons we said it was there: to talk about things other than coasters and to get to know people on different levels. However, several people took it as their own little post playground and it severely hurt the site's reputation. It's this mentality that you absolutely have to be posting that is so screwed up. If there's nothing to talk about, guess what? You don't talk. You're basically saying that you post for the sake of posting. That's not what this site is here for, and if you simply like to post for the heck of it, you need to find another site.

Heck, the NCR was supposed to be fun. Too many people went overboard with it, though, and it became more ridiculous than fun, at least for those of us who understood it and its limitations.


Dont put words in my mouth, I never thought I had to post on this website, but I wanted to stay active, I have gone months and weeks without posting before, just cause it really wasnt worth posting anything...

You contradicted yourself anyway, and I've made the same arguement about it being there to get to know people on different levels before too( in this same thread I believe, not even 2 pages ago...). I love how you try to make me a prime example, I took the liberty in bolding where you try to match me up with your "screwed up" posting mentality, even though I openly admit I've made my severe share of mistakes in that place. The only problem is, you like most people cant point the finger at someone else, without making themselves like a J-A, because EVERYONE who ever has made a topic or posted in a NCR topic has made a bad post before. The simple fact is EVERYONE DOES IT! Heck, I've even taken a verbal attack from an ADMIN before(And I believe that is a bit more severe from one of them) . I'd also like to note that, that ADMIN never gave me a formal apology either, instead someone else emailed me saying they are sorry for what they said. Isnt that sad?

Well sirloin, I'm sorry for screwing up the website. Sorry for not posting with the wrong mentality. Sorry for liking the NCR. Sorry for having horrible posting quality. Sorry for verbally attacking all those people(how many times have I ever really?:rolleyes:). Sorry for liking Rcpro and coming back even when I've been attacked for my "stupidity" by an ADMIN.

Sorry but If I post with the wrong mentality why dont you ban me already? But dont forget to ban all those other people who make chronic mistakes on the forum too and even enjoyed the NCR.

It seems RCpro is becoming NCR nazi-pro

[Jake]

I was going to stay out of this, but when you start making bogus attacks on Sirloin, you die.


Dont put words in my mouth, I never thought I had to post on this website, but I wanted to stay active, I have gone months and weeks without posting before, just cause it really wasnt worth posting anything...

Okay? If you want to stay active, than post about coasters. If you can't handle that, than there really is no need to stay active, right?


You contradicted yourself anyway, and I've made the same arguement about it being there to get to know people on different levels before too( in this same thread I believe, not even 2 pages ago...). I love how you try to make me a prime example, I took the liberty in bolding where you try to match me up with your "screwed up" posting mentality, even though I openly admit I've made my severe share of mistakes in that place. The only problem is, you like most people cant point the finger at someone else, without making themselves like a J-A, because EVERYONE who ever has made a topic or posted in a NCR topic has made a bad post before.

Nobody said that all who posted in the NCR were bad posters, did they? Everyone was a bad poster at some point, so there is no need to "point the finger" at anybody, right?


The simple fact is EVERYONE DOES IT! Heck, I've even taken a verbal attack from an ADMIN before(And I believe that is a bit more severe from one of them) . I'd also like to note that, that ADMIN never gave me a formal apology either, instead someone else emailed me saying they are sorry for what they said. Isnt that sad?

A verbal attack? I don't recall anything of the sort. And why should they apologize to you? Like you haven't had your fair share of "verbal outbursts" before? Are you going to apologize to Justin about this outrageous post of yours? I think not.


Well sirloin, I'm sorry for screwing up the website. Sorry for not posting with the wrong mentality. Sorry for liking the NCR. Sorry for having horrible posting quality. Sorry for verbally attacking all those people(how many times have I ever really?:rolleyes:). Sorry for liking Rcpro and coming back even when I've been attacked for my "stupidity" by an ADMIN.

Making sarcastic, rude remarks to other members should not, in my opinion be tolerated. And, maybe there was a good reason that the admin "attacked you" for your "stupidity". I can think of a few good reasons right off the bat.


Sorry but If I post with the wrong mentality why dont you ban me already? But dont forget to ban all those other people who make chronic mistakes on the forum too and even enjoyed the NCR.

Or you could save them the trouble, and leave, if you don't like the way things are done. Thought I would note that Sirloin is no longer an admin.


It seems RCpro is becoming NCR nazi-pro

I can't imagine why...

[theRock-steel]

The B&M vs. Intamin thread was great. That was an intelligent topic (kudos to T-TimeKSU for that brilliant discussion).

Yes it was. I was just saying that other manufactures were left out. I would have titled it "Your Favorite Builder Of Steels". B&M and Intamin would have both been mentioned, but Arrow, Morgan, Premier, Schwarzkopf, S&S Power, Vekoma, and individual people and parks could have also been brought up.




And Steel vs. Wood might be a bit more interesting if more of us had been on good wooden coasters, lol, but that topic could work sometime in the future.

Whenever you think that we are ready, give it a try.

I forgot to say this. Many NCR forums would seem out of place here. I've been to other coaster sites with those. If you want to talk about baseball, football, cars, movies, and music there are other sites just for those. There are even sites for everything. However, I hope we can be open to talk about anything dealing with amusement parks in general. Traveling, traffic, hotels, and water parks could be talked about in a limited number of threads. I hope that my "Good Non-Coasters" thread was not looked down upon. (It did get over 400 views and over 20 replies, so someone liked it.)

[Youhow2]

I was going to stay out of this, but when you start making bogus attacks on Sirloin, you die.

I'm not dead yet....



Okay? If you want to stay active, than post about coasters. If you can't handle that, than there really is no need to stay active, right?

Yeah, I post about coasters, and I came here to post about coasters, I said I can handle it about 3 messages ago I think...No need to reiterate, go read the original post...




Nobody said that all who posted in the NCR were bad posters, did they? Everyone was a bad poster at some point, so there is no need to "point the finger" at anybody, right?

My point IS that everyone was a bad poster before. My point is that sirlion singled my "posting mentality" out. I dont know how he took it the wrong way, but he did. Who's making a bogus attack? I have every right to defend my viewpoint...




A verbal attack? I don't recall anything of the sort. And why should they apologize to you? Like you haven't had your fair share of "verbal outbursts" before? Are you going to apologize to Justin about this outrageous post of yours? I think not.

Wouldnt you try to clean up the murder you commited? Maybe you should be scraping my dead lifeless corpse off my computer room floor at my house, and throwing my body down at the bottom of the ocean or something, Or you can leave it here and give the cops more clues...

It was deleted after I made a comment about it on the forum, there were several insults and threats that would not be tolerated by anyone in that post, and to put the icing on the cake SEVERAL profanities.
It was atleast a year ago... It was probally before you joined the site, I have no idea when you did...




Making sarcastic, rude remarks to other members should not, in my opinion be tolerated. And, maybe there was a good reason that the admin "attacked you" for your "stupidity". I can think of a few good reasons right off the bat.

Am I the only one guilty of "rude","sarcastic" attacks?:rolleyes:
And there is nothing to justify attack someone in any form unless they attack you, or endanger you first, so says the law...

Speaking of law, I could probally get you arrested for everything you have said in your post so far, in fact the first line could honestly get you arrested. I've seen people who have said less get arrested. Maybe you shouldnt say you have a reason to attack me. People get arrested because of myspace and social sites everyday for verbal assualt less severe than that buddy... If you want to attack, or tell me what you think of me, you are invited to send me a message and use any verbal manner without any legal action being taken. This invintation is extended to anyone...




Or you could save them the trouble, and leave, if you don't like the way things are done. Thought I would note that Sirloin is no longer an admin.

Well It would be rude of them to ban me, without banning anyone else involved with this post. As I said I was simply defending my opinion. You told me for being partially rude to sirlion "you(I) die". If I had chose to take that seriously you'd be screwed, no matter how fast you deleted your post. See how negatively it affects rcpro then... Dont take that as a threat to rcpro either, because your the one who would have caused any damage. I know he isnt, but if he really wanted me banned i'm sure he could ask someone to make a motion that I be banned...


If something is wrong with my mentality, I dont know what to say, but someone telling me I have a different mentality from what I had just posted, and I should leave because of it, Is extremly rude, thank you very much jake... but because it was sirloin that said It,and I challenged his judgement, I deserve to flop over and die.




I can't imagine why...

Neither can I my friend, neither can I.


As I said before people dont know how to point fingers.

[sirloin]

Dont put words in my mouth, I never thought I had to post on this website, but I wanted to stay active, I have gone months and weeks without posting before, just cause it really wasnt worth posting anything...I'm glad you wanted to stay active, but at what expense?


You contradicted yourself anyway, and I've made the same argument about it being there to get to know people on different levels before too (in this same thread I believe, not even 2 pages ago...).I didn't contradict myself. Everybody knew why it was there. However, alot of people did not understand its limitations, and that is where the problem comes in. You see, alot of people weren't getting to know people in there anymore. There was so much in there that there couldn't possibly be anything you didn't know about anybody anymore. All the best threads in there had to be closed because people started fights in them.


I love how you try to make me a prime example, I took the liberty in bolding where you try to match me up with your "screwed up" posting mentality, even though I openly admit I've made my severe share of mistakes in that place. The only problem is, you like most people cant point the finger at someone else, without making themselves like a J-A, because EVERYONE who ever has made a topic or posted in a NCR topic has made a bad post before. The simple fact is EVERYONE DOES IT!Yeah, but the difference is that most of those people changed the way they posted. That's the distinction you're missing. It's all well and good if you slip up at first. My first thread was Raptor vs. Mantis. Oh, and then once I really got active, I began bashing SFMM with no decent basis for anything I said. I worked at it, though, and I'd like to think I've established some credibility as time has gone by. It's when you've been here for years and I still can't stand reading your posts (and that you does not necessarily have to mean you specifically) that there's a problem.

Honestly, I'm gonna exploit every flaw in logic I see, and while that might look like I'm being a jerk to some people, the victims of it usually understand. That's why I get along real well with people like JD, Billy, Jake, and many others, and why I don't get along with you. They know it's nothing personal. They understand that exploiting holes in logic is the way debates work. I think the fact that you never really jump in on any of the good ones is making it hard for you to understand that we're not fighting when we disagree.

I think you and DawgMan with his hilarious poll are the only two people lately who have come out and said I was being a jerk. The rest of the people, who join in debates with me, know that I'm merely trying to present my side as the correct side, which is how those things are supposed to go.

[/quote=Youhow2]Heck, I've even taken a verbal attack from an ADMIN before (And I believe that is a bit more severe from one of them) . I'd also like to note that, that ADMIN never gave me a formal apology either, instead someone else emailed me saying they are sorry for what they said. Isnt that sad?[/quote]Sorry to hear that. Might have been me. I don't know. If it was, sorry.


Well sirloin, I'm sorry for screwing up the website. Sorry for not posting with the wrong mentality. Sorry for liking the NCR. Sorry for having horrible posting quality. Sorry for verbally attacking all those people(how many times have I ever really?:rolleyes:). Sorry for liking Rcpro and coming back even when I've been attacked for my "stupidity" by an ADMIN.Don't turn this on me. This is not my fault. I'm trying to answer your questions as best I can. I'm a firm believer in keeping RCPro alive, and if you can't see that, your loss. Everyone else understands me.


Sorry but If I post with the wrong mentality why don't you ban me already? But don't forget to ban all those other people who make chronic mistakes on the forum too and even enjoyed the NCR.The staff only ban people if they violate forum policies excessively. You've not reached that stage yet, and thus, you are welcome here.


It seems RCpro is becoming NCR nazi-proLOL! Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious.

Let me ask this question: why does a roller coaster site owe people a forum dedicated to everything but the subject? Why is that a requirement? And why can't you realize that maybe, just maybe, it wasn't our fault? We want you to have that forum. You don't know how to use it. As such, you lose said forum.


My point IS that everyone was a bad poster before. My point is that sirlion singled my "posting mentality" out. I dont know how he took it the wrong way, but he did. Who's making a bogus attack? I have every right to defend my viewpoint...You aren't the only one with that mentality. I took it the way I did because you said it that way.


Am I the only one guilty of "rude","sarcastic" attacks?:rolleyes:No, because I thought I was the king of sarcastic attacks, unless I've been mistaken. And frankly, it's only a few people who really get victimized by those.


And there is nothing to justify attack someone in any form unless they attack you, or endanger you first, so says the law...Because merely taking a verbal stab at someone is the same as hitting them over the head with a pipe.


Speaking of law, I could probally get you arrested for everything you have said in your post so far, in fact the first line could honestly get you arrested. I've seen people who have said less get arrested. Maybe you shouldnt say you have a reason to attack me. People get arrested because of myspace and social sites everyday for verbal assualt less severe than that buddy... If you want to attack, or tell me what you think of me, you are invited to send me a message and use any verbal manner without any legal action being taken. This invintation is extended to anyone...Way to totally blow Jake's post out of proportion. His use of die did not mean literal death; rather, it meant death to your credibility.


I know he isn't, but if he really wanted me banned I'm sure he could ask someone to make a motion that I be banned...You're still here, aren't you? Until there's just cause to ban you, you stay. And right now, there's no just cause to ban you. You just don't like that everybody's disagreeing with you. Some people can lose an argument with grace. Those who don't don't belong on forums.

Take Intamin-Mike for example. He ended up in a debate about Cedar Point and ended up having to go solo against Ryan and I, as well as a couple others. He got pretty frustrated over that, and yet, we both get along with him and he with us. And I respect him for sticking that one out.

Look, Youhow2, there's one thing everybody around here needs to learn: in debates, you stand a good chance of having a hole in your logic exploited, possibly with catastrophic consequences. Some people can deal with that, improve their technique, and keep coming back. That's why I'm still here. Heck, you've got the better of me in the past. You, my friend, have owned me. I just decided to shape up, fix what I was doing wrong, and come back as a fiercer opponent. And now you're in the position I was once in.

[Jake]

Youhow, please, press charges, try and get me arrested for wanting you to "die". Everyone knows it was merely a joke, nothing more, get control of yourself. If you think your scaring me, your wrong, and I'm pretty sure "threatening someone" is illegal too, just saying.

At this point, it wouldn't be "rude of them" to ban you, because as far as I'm concerned you deserve it. Even if it's only temporary. Your posts are ill-formed, you frequently have poor grammar, and lack an attempt at decent spelling and/or grammar in your posts, and now your threatening to have me arrested.

If you want to talka bout something non-coaster related, do it on AIM, or another site devoted to whatever topic you wish to discuss.

[Youhow2]

I'm glad you wanted to stay active, but at what expense? Expense? $500 enough? Who should I write the check out to?



I didn't contradict myself. Everybody knew why it was there. However, alot of people did not understand its limitations, and that is where the problem comes in. You see, alot of people weren't getting to know people in there anymore. There was so much in there that there couldn't possibly be anything you didn't know about anybody anymore. All the best threads in there had to be closed because people started fights in them. I actually did stop posting in it as often as I used to when this occured...



Yeah, but the difference is that most of those people changed the way they posted. That's the distinction you're missing. It's all well and good if you slip up at first. My first thread was Raptor vs. Mantis. Oh, and then once I really got active, I began bashing SFMM with no decent basis for anything I said. I worked at it, though, and I'd like to think I've established some credibility as time has gone by. It's when you've been here for years and I still can't stand reading your posts (and that you does not necessarily have to mean you specifically) that there's a problem. When I first joined all I wanted to do is make SFMM vs CP discussions... I'm far from that level now. If you dont like my posting style, avoid my post. I dont know why but It seems I usually dont get my point across people very well over the internet...




Honestly, I'm gonna exploit every flaw in logic I see, and while that might look like I'm being a jerk to some people, the victims of it usually understand. That's why I get along real well with people like JD, Billy, Jake, and many others, and why I don't get along with you. They know it's nothing personal. They understand that exploiting holes in logic is the way debates work. I think the fact that you never really jump in on any of the good ones is making it hard for you to understand that we're not fighting when we disagree.

I think you and DawgMan with his hilarious poll are the only two people lately who have come out and said I was being a jerk. The rest of the people, who join in debates with me, know that I'm merely trying to present my side as the correct side, which is how those things are supposed to go.

Trust me, I know how to debate. The problem is I wasnt taking you as being in debate mode. Had I known this I would have toned everything thing I said down, but still wouldve pointed out Removing the NCR has little effect on my posting on Rcpro No matter what people think... It's like the boss taking the watercooler out of the office.


Sorry to hear that. Might have been me. I don't know. If it was, sorry. No not you...



Don't turn this on me. This is not my fault. I'm trying to answer your questions as best I can. I'm a firm believer in keeping RCPro alive, and if you can't see that, your loss. Everyone else understands me.

never did try to place blame on you for this.



The staff only ban people if they violate forum policies excessively. You've not reached that stage yet, and thus, you are welcome here.


Why, thank you.



LOL! Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious.

Let me ask this question: why does a roller coaster site owe people a forum dedicated to everything but the subject? Why is that a requirement? And why can't you realize that maybe, just maybe, it wasn't our fault? We want you to have that forum. You don't know how to use it. As such, you lose said forum.

It wasnt your fault but technically someone did remove it...lol

Never did I say you owed us the NCR... I just liked it. I will admit as of late it was getting kind of stupid, but still... becoming NCR-Nazi's wont change a thing... If hitler had discussed his problems with jews over a nice tea and cake, and agreed on a settlement WWII probaly wouldnt have happened.;)

[sirloin]

It wasnt your fault but technically someone did remove it...lolDid I remove it myself? No. Was I consulted? Yes, and I fully supported its removal.

I did like the last part of your post, though. I want to remind you how much we had to spend on tea and cake with nobody getting the point. Thus, the forum died.

[Mike T]

Here is yet another instance where a constructive thread turns into a battle. Stay tuned for part 3 next week...

[zburns999]

This is all quite entertaining. If we still had the smily with the guy eating popcorn, I'd use it now.

But really, what Mike says in the post above mine is totally correct. I'd attribute the inability to have an intelligent argument to the abrupt loss of the NCR forum though. It was really such a popular part of the forum, most of us havn't gotten used to debating and disagreeing on points without being offended and taking things personally.